6 ms·

Core iOS apps being replaced, one at a time

43 points by illdave 14y ago

shadesandcolour 14y ago
I wouldn't count on it any time soon. Currently those apps are going to be the ones you get because the iPad /iPhone is still somewhat of a specialty device. I don't think we'll see it iOS 6 but possibly in later versions of the operating system. As the platform becomes even more mature and people begin to use it more as a primary device I can see Apple letting you swap out default apps.
nutjob123 14y ago
Its been said but I would like to point out that this type of customization is trivial on android. The ability to customize many parts of my phone is one of the reasons enjoy using the platform. I have recently seen online communities springing up with non-coders showing off their individualized android phones.
tomflack 14y ago
This is what ultimately led me to replace my iPhone4 with a Galaxy Nexus last week. I'm sure I'm not alone.
- nextstep 14y ago
  Not alone, but in a small minority of consumers.
mwexler 14y ago
Hmm... some of the apps mentioned have costs, some require logins, some don't integrate well with other apps, some don't exactly rock the design department. While each of them has something to love, I don't know how much real scale this "replacement" process is. B/c to get some of these great features, I have to give up confidence that it's "Apple vetted and integrated". For a techie, it's a relief to have a non-apple capability, but I wonder about the average consumer, who likes the "free, integrated, no accounts/logins required, apple-ly cute" aspects of default apps. If anything, I expect to see things go the other way: Apple will replace google maps with it's own maps, and any other app that we really love a lot will have an Apple analog: integrated deeply but controlled by them. Siri was but the first step, I fear.
- replax 14y ago
  Actually, I do not think so. Apple would have nothing to gain from integrating own Apps further and/or producing more of them. However, they have something to gain if the mail app is not good enough for powerusers and all of them buy Sparrow instead. That saves them a whole lot of developer/maintenance time and gets them 30% of every e.g. Sparrow sold. While that may not be Apples main incentive, it is definitely something I think.
jasonkester 14y ago
Are you certain this isn't just you? I've heard of exactly one of the dozen-odd apps you listed, and that one only because it's been on the frontpage of HN so often. I don't have a copy of it though. I think that people who customize their iPhones to this level just assume that it's normal to do so. Among people I know who have them, there's a sharp divide between the small percent who have seven pages of apps and most people I know who have maybe 3 or 4 apps installed.
- wgx 14y ago
  What he said. The vast, vast majority of 'regular' iPhone users have never, and will never hear of the apps described in this post. For them, the default apps are just fine. That's not to disparage the choice, just to recognise that regular users don't care about this kind of thing one bit.
  - toyg 14y ago
    That would imply the App Store is completely useless and not a huge factor for the continuous success of iOS devices. I think you can see how wrong you are. The thing is, not everyone will customize all apps, but everyone will customize at least one app, be it a better todo list, a better IM, a better picture-taking app, or a better recipe database. Which is why the appstore is so popular. EDIT: clearly the "regular users" I know are different from everybody else. The North of England must be a hive of phone-geeks living in some sort of bubble.
    - wgx 14y ago
      That's not what I've implied at all. Everyone will customise their experience of the device, by adding what they like from the store. My point is that, more often than not, these users won't replace core apps like Mail or Calendar - these apps work just fine for most people and there's no incentive to change.
      - toyg 14y ago
        There is no incentive... until there is. The default camera app doesn't zoom. The default music player won't create playlists (edit -- sorry, it does; what I meant is that there is no queuing to the now-playing like in old iPods). The default todo app won't do cloud sync (well, it does now, but it wasn't the case before). And so on -- as soon as your usage of a particular app increases over a certain threshold, you'll encounter a corner case and head for the appstore to get a better app. So a photographer will have five picture-related apps and never touch the default one, while using the default mail client; a lifehacker will have fifteen hyper-specialized ToDo apps and never touch the default one, while using the default camera app.
jbruton 14y ago
Well that's an easy fix: If you're clamoring for this kind of customization freedom, go get yourself an Android device.
Xion 14y ago
You can replace the built-in apps with different ones but this can go only go so far as to change the icons you tap on dashboard. The lack of unified way for apps to interact with each other is seriously crippling the platform's capabilities. As I use both an iPad and Android phone on daily basis, I'm find this especially lacking in tablet setting. An app wants to open a web page in standalone browser? They will always do that in Safari. Sending an email? Only through the default app. About the only 3rd party application that I can consistently use from more than one place is probably Read It Later (called Pocket now) - and that's only because apps' developers took time specifically to integrate with it. And that's basically how it works on iOS now: for application X to interact with Y, it must specifically account for Y. Any similar replacement app Y' or Y'' will not be supported unless handled separately. It's easy to see how this model doesn't scale to diversity.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Perhaps Apple can borrow something from Microsoft. Contracts seem like the perfect way to add cross-app communication in a restrictive App Store-only environment.
- cageface 14y ago
  The really crippling constraint on iOS is the keyboard. After using Swype on Android for a while it is excruciatingly slow and tedious pecking out text one letter at a time on an iPhone. I'm using an iPhone these days because that's the platform I develop for and I don't really miss the flexibility of the Android intents much generally but the chilling effect Apple's control can have on innovation is really glaringly obvious in the keyboard.
  - Feoh 14y ago
    I think you're missing Xion's point and taking the opportunity to complain about a pet peeve you have with the platform. Personally, I couldn't agree more with what he's saying. Users of other platforms (like Android) have had the ability for apps to interoperate (with intents, for example) since the very beginning, and IOS is dramatically behind in this regard.
nachteilig 14y ago
My own usage barely strays from the default apps that Apple includes. If anything, I'd argue that Apple has done a great job with updating and keeping those relevant to what I need from my phone.
jiggy2011 14y ago
It's going to be interesting in the long term how the battle between consistency and flexibility/innovation plays out. In general people seem to be happier using the software that they know everyone else is using even if they hate it (case in point, pretty much every version of Windows). On the other hand when a "killer app" comes along that is a big enough step forward to make everybody pay attention, this is more likely to happen on the most "open" platform. Apple has done well so far because a significant enough of these "killer apps" have been developed by them in house. Take web browsers for instance, even though HN will argue the merits of various browsers endlessly from an end user point of view they are usually all so similar as to make no difference. However with iphone you are essentially locked to safari (or other browsers which are essentially safari skins). What would happen if a third party developed a completely new browser that revolutionized mobile browsing? If that were not available on iPhone due to apple's policies then what would happen to their market share?
- glhaynes 14y ago
  If that were not available on iPhone due to apple's policies then what would happen to their market share? Then they'd allow it (if they couldn't co-opt it). Apple's interest in Safari and restrictions on the App Store / customizability extend only to allowing them to make hardware that many people want to buy. There's never going to come a day that something so great that everybody has to have it and that runs afoul of the App Store policies comes along and Apple decides to ride a sinking ship of App Store protectionism into meaninglessness. Policies will adapt as they need to in order to continue selling their platform.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    That's what is interesting though, will it mean that over time Apple will eventually have to start dropping their various restrictions one by one. Or does it mean as you suggested that they will just try and co-opt all the good stuff that everybody else is doing into their own software/devices which could lead to them spending large amounts of manpower essentially running on a treadmill.
emehrkay 14y ago
How easy would it be for apple to allow apps to register themselves with the ability to open certain files/handle certain situations and then present that in the system menu for those who want to tinker with that? default web browser > default music > etc.
- jonknee 14y ago
  That already exists: http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/DocumentInteraction_TopicsForIOS/Articles/RegisteringtheFileTypesYourAppSupports.html http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/FileMa...
  - RandallBrown 14y ago
    That's not what he meant. All mailto: links will open in the mail app. All http:// http:// links will open in Safari. You want to take a picture from your twitter app? You want to share to twitter from the camera app? You have to use Apple's implementation, you can't push it through your favorite twitter app.
    - jonknee 14y ago
      But it's sort of what you meant. I see "Open in Dropbox" and "Open in Camera+" quite frequently. Here's more on how that works: http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2012/01/tip-missing-apps-in-open-in-menu.html http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2012/01/tip-missing-apps-i... The URL style technique is supported as well, you can send data to another app by using it's URL scheme. It's not a perfect implementation (you can't change the defaults like mail://), but I believe that's intentional.
      - emehrkay 14y ago
        Looks like this is a run-time version of what I posted. Thanks
- rpledge 14y ago
twodayslate 14y ago
The only default app I have "replaced" is the calculator app. I use calctimate. http://www.skypaw.com/apps/calctimate/ http://www.skypaw.com/apps/calctimate/ However, that app isn't important and never is triggered to launch by other apps (like mail or safari). Plus, I only use it maybe once a month. Also, you can set default clients if you jailbreak. However, I just think everything is so much smoother and faster when you use the default apps Apple provides.
- willyt 14y ago
  I use soulver instead of calculator. It's sweet.
- dhucerbin 14y ago
  I use m48 - mirrors native look and evaluate in rpn.
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  Digits is my tool of choice, great design and function. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digits-calculator-for-ipad/id364500115?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digits-calculator-for-ipad/id...
jwallaceparker 14y ago
I use all the default iOS and Mac apps (except for Safari - I prefer Chrome). I've found that Apple eventually incorporates the best features of these alternative apps into their core apps anyhow.
chrisrhoden 14y ago
This is exactly the design of Android that makes so many people dislike it. the Intents API does literally everything that you mention. It is effectively somewhat annoying in certain situations, but I think it's probably going to win. edit: typo
- glhaynes 14y ago
  In what ways is it annoying? (I don't have day-to-day usage experience with an Android device.)
  - notatoad 14y ago
    it's a little too agressive. for example, i set it so firefox automatically handles all web links, and that means it is impossible to use the stock browser anymore. opening the browser and loading the homepage triggers an intent to load a webpage, so android opens firefox and loads the homepage there. also, it can get a little annoying to constantly be asked what app you want to use to do things, but this annoyance goes as you click the "don't ask me again" checkbox for more and more intents.
Monotoko 14y ago
The default apps work fine for me... I use "notes" and sync it with my google account using the default mail app. The only 3rd party app I use a lot is "WhatsApp" - and that's just to text some friends around the globe. I then have a few games and some useful server monitoring apps... as well as some comics. 3-4 pages of 3rd party apps maybe? But none of them replace the defaults for me...
saturdaysaint 14y ago
I can't say that these are my big pain points. Intents are elegant, but apps are a comfortable model. Just as everyone has been conditioned by the modern web to "open webpage X to do action X", you "open app X to do action X". The workflow isn't as elegant, but in blurring the line between the app and the document I'd argue that they've done most users a favor. You'd be amazed at how few people are aware of the "open with" dialogue in Windows. More than intents and access, I think apps need more memory and the ability to do some background processing. I keep going back to Safari because the fine third party alternatives seem to fall out of memory much more easily. My biggest pain point with iOS is waiting for web enabled apps to load data. I'd like to see the top 5 pictures on my Instagram feed and the top 10 or so Facebook updates the instant I click the app icon. I'd like Dropbox and Kindle to refresh my document list whenever it changes. I'd like cloud-enabled notes apps to sync/update before I open the app. Of course, this requires some management (user controls,bandwidth limits, battery level, etc.), but nothing Apple can't handle.
EGreg 14y ago
You missed Groups replacing Contacts :) http://groups.qbix.com http://groups.qbix.com

43 points by illdave 14y ago

I wouldn't count on it any time soon. Currently those apps are going to be the ones you get because the iPad /iPhone is still somewhat of a specialty device. I don't think we'll see it iOS 6 but possibly in later versions of the operating system. As the platform becomes even more mature and people begin to use it more as a primary device I can see Apple letting you swap out default apps.

nutjob123 14y ago

Its been said but I would like to point out that this type of customization is trivial on android. The ability to customize many parts of my phone is one of the reasons enjoy using the platform. I have recently seen online communities springing up with non-coders showing off their individualized android phones.

tomflack 14y ago

This is what ultimately led me to replace my iPhone4 with a Galaxy Nexus last week. I'm sure I'm not alone.

nextstep 14y ago
Not alone, but in a small minority of consumers.

mwexler 14y ago

Hmm... some of the apps mentioned have costs, some require logins, some don't integrate well with other apps, some don't exactly rock the design department. While each of them has something to love, I don't know how much real scale this "replacement" process is. B/c to get some of these great features, I have to give up confidence that it's "Apple vetted and integrated". For a techie, it's a relief to have a non-apple capability, but I wonder about the average consumer, who likes the "free, integrated, no accounts/logins required, apple-ly cute" aspects of default apps. If anything, I expect to see things go the other way: Apple will replace google maps with it's own maps, and any other app that we really love a lot will have an Apple analog: integrated deeply but controlled by them. Siri was but the first step, I fear.

replax 14y ago
Actually, I do not think so. Apple would have nothing to gain from integrating own Apps further and/or producing more of them. However, they have something to gain if the mail app is not good enough for powerusers and all of them buy Sparrow instead. That saves them a whole lot of developer/maintenance time and gets them 30% of every e.g. Sparrow sold. While that may not be Apples main incentive, it is definitely something I think.

jasonkester 14y ago

Are you certain this isn't just you? I've heard of exactly one of the dozen-odd apps you listed, and that one only because it's been on the frontpage of HN so often. I don't have a copy of it though. I think that people who customize their iPhones to this level just assume that it's normal to do so. Among people I know who have them, there's a sharp divide between the small percent who have seven pages of apps and most people I know who have maybe 3 or 4 apps installed.

wgx 14y ago
What he said. The vast, vast majority of 'regular' iPhone users have never, and will never hear of the apps described in this post. For them, the default apps are just fine. That's not to disparage the choice, just to recognise that regular users don't care about this kind of thing one bit.
- toyg 14y ago
  That would imply the App Store is completely useless and not a huge factor for the continuous success of iOS devices. I think you can see how wrong you are. The thing is, not everyone will customize all apps, but everyone will customize at least one app, be it a better todo list, a better IM, a better picture-taking app, or a better recipe database. Which is why the appstore is so popular. EDIT: clearly the "regular users" I know are different from everybody else. The North of England must be a hive of phone-geeks living in some sort of bubble.
  - wgx 14y ago
    That's not what I've implied at all. Everyone will customise their experience of the device, by adding what they like from the store. My point is that, more often than not, these users won't replace core apps like Mail or Calendar - these apps work just fine for most people and there's no incentive to change.
    - toyg 14y ago
      There is no incentive... until there is. The default camera app doesn't zoom. The default music player won't create playlists (edit -- sorry, it does; what I meant is that there is no queuing to the now-playing like in old iPods). The default todo app won't do cloud sync (well, it does now, but it wasn't the case before). And so on -- as soon as your usage of a particular app increases over a certain threshold, you'll encounter a corner case and head for the appstore to get a better app. So a photographer will have five picture-related apps and never touch the default one, while using the default mail client; a lifehacker will have fifteen hyper-specialized ToDo apps and never touch the default one, while using the default camera app.

jbruton 14y ago

Well that's an easy fix: If you're clamoring for this kind of customization freedom, go get yourself an Android device.

Xion 14y ago

You can replace the built-in apps with different ones but this can go only go so far as to change the icons you tap on dashboard. The lack of unified way for apps to interact with each other is seriously crippling the platform's capabilities. As I use both an iPad and Android phone on daily basis, I'm find this especially lacking in tablet setting. An app wants to open a web page in standalone browser? They will always do that in Safari. Sending an email? Only through the default app. About the only 3rd party application that I can consistently use from more than one place is probably Read It Later (called Pocket now) - and that's only because apps' developers took time specifically to integrate with it. And that's basically how it works on iOS now: for application X to interact with Y, it must specifically account for Y. Any similar replacement app Y' or Y'' will not be supported unless handled separately. It's easy to see how this model doesn't scale to diversity.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Perhaps Apple can borrow something from Microsoft. Contracts seem like the perfect way to add cross-app communication in a restrictive App Store-only environment.
cageface 14y ago
The really crippling constraint on iOS is the keyboard. After using Swype on Android for a while it is excruciatingly slow and tedious pecking out text one letter at a time on an iPhone. I'm using an iPhone these days because that's the platform I develop for and I don't really miss the flexibility of the Android intents much generally but the chilling effect Apple's control can have on innovation is really glaringly obvious in the keyboard.
- Feoh 14y ago
  I think you're missing Xion's point and taking the opportunity to complain about a pet peeve you have with the platform. Personally, I couldn't agree more with what he's saying. Users of other platforms (like Android) have had the ability for apps to interoperate (with intents, for example) since the very beginning, and IOS is dramatically behind in this regard.

nachteilig 14y ago

My own usage barely strays from the default apps that Apple includes. If anything, I'd argue that Apple has done a great job with updating and keeping those relevant to what I need from my phone.

jiggy2011 14y ago

It's going to be interesting in the long term how the battle between consistency and flexibility/innovation plays out. In general people seem to be happier using the software that they know everyone else is using even if they hate it (case in point, pretty much every version of Windows). On the other hand when a "killer app" comes along that is a big enough step forward to make everybody pay attention, this is more likely to happen on the most "open" platform. Apple has done well so far because a significant enough of these "killer apps" have been developed by them in house. Take web browsers for instance, even though HN will argue the merits of various browsers endlessly from an end user point of view they are usually all so similar as to make no difference. However with iphone you are essentially locked to safari (or other browsers which are essentially safari skins). What would happen if a third party developed a completely new browser that revolutionized mobile browsing? If that were not available on iPhone due to apple's policies then what would happen to their market share?

glhaynes 14y ago
If that were not available on iPhone due to apple's policies then what would happen to their market share? Then they'd allow it (if they couldn't co-opt it). Apple's interest in Safari and restrictions on the App Store / customizability extend only to allowing them to make hardware that many people want to buy. There's never going to come a day that something so great that everybody has to have it and that runs afoul of the App Store policies comes along and Apple decides to ride a sinking ship of App Store protectionism into meaninglessness. Policies will adapt as they need to in order to continue selling their platform.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  That's what is interesting though, will it mean that over time Apple will eventually have to start dropping their various restrictions one by one. Or does it mean as you suggested that they will just try and co-opt all the good stuff that everybody else is doing into their own software/devices which could lead to them spending large amounts of manpower essentially running on a treadmill.

emehrkay 14y ago

How easy would it be for apple to allow apps to register themselves with the ability to open certain files/handle certain situations and then present that in the system menu for those who want to tinker with that? default web browser > default music > etc.

jonknee 14y ago
That already exists: http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/DocumentInteraction_TopicsForIOS/Articles/RegisteringtheFileTypesYourAppSupports.html http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/FileMa...
- RandallBrown 14y ago
  That's not what he meant. All mailto: links will open in the mail app. All http:// http:// links will open in Safari. You want to take a picture from your twitter app? You want to share to twitter from the camera app? You have to use Apple's implementation, you can't push it through your favorite twitter app.
  - jonknee 14y ago
    But it's sort of what you meant. I see "Open in Dropbox" and "Open in Camera+" quite frequently. Here's more on how that works: http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2012/01/tip-missing-apps-in-open-in-menu.html http://www.iphonejd.com/iphone_jd/2012/01/tip-missing-apps-i... The URL style technique is supported as well, you can send data to another app by using it's URL scheme. It's not a perfect implementation (you can't change the defaults like mail://), but I believe that's intentional.
    - emehrkay 14y ago
      Looks like this is a run-time version of what I posted. Thanks
rpledge 14y ago

twodayslate 14y ago

The only default app I have "replaced" is the calculator app. I use calctimate. http://www.skypaw.com/apps/calctimate/ http://www.skypaw.com/apps/calctimate/ However, that app isn't important and never is triggered to launch by other apps (like mail or safari). Plus, I only use it maybe once a month. Also, you can set default clients if you jailbreak. However, I just think everything is so much smoother and faster when you use the default apps Apple provides.

willyt 14y ago
I use soulver instead of calculator. It's sweet.
dhucerbin 14y ago
I use m48 - mirrors native look and evaluate in rpn.
ricardobeat 14y ago
Digits is my tool of choice, great design and function. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digits-calculator-for-ipad/id364500115?mt=8 http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/digits-calculator-for-ipad/id...

jwallaceparker 14y ago

I use all the default iOS and Mac apps (except for Safari - I prefer Chrome). I've found that Apple eventually incorporates the best features of these alternative apps into their core apps anyhow.

chrisrhoden 14y ago

This is exactly the design of Android that makes so many people dislike it. the Intents API does literally everything that you mention. It is effectively somewhat annoying in certain situations, but I think it's probably going to win. edit: typo

glhaynes 14y ago
In what ways is it annoying? (I don't have day-to-day usage experience with an Android device.)
- notatoad 14y ago
  it's a little too agressive. for example, i set it so firefox automatically handles all web links, and that means it is impossible to use the stock browser anymore. opening the browser and loading the homepage triggers an intent to load a webpage, so android opens firefox and loads the homepage there. also, it can get a little annoying to constantly be asked what app you want to use to do things, but this annoyance goes as you click the "don't ask me again" checkbox for more and more intents.

Monotoko 14y ago

The default apps work fine for me... I use "notes" and sync it with my google account using the default mail app. The only 3rd party app I use a lot is "WhatsApp" - and that's just to text some friends around the globe. I then have a few games and some useful server monitoring apps... as well as some comics. 3-4 pages of 3rd party apps maybe? But none of them replace the defaults for me...

saturdaysaint 14y ago

I can't say that these are my big pain points. Intents are elegant, but apps are a comfortable model. Just as everyone has been conditioned by the modern web to "open webpage X to do action X", you "open app X to do action X". The workflow isn't as elegant, but in blurring the line between the app and the document I'd argue that they've done most users a favor. You'd be amazed at how few people are aware of the "open with" dialogue in Windows. More than intents and access, I think apps need more memory and the ability to do some background processing. I keep going back to Safari because the fine third party alternatives seem to fall out of memory much more easily. My biggest pain point with iOS is waiting for web enabled apps to load data. I'd like to see the top 5 pictures on my Instagram feed and the top 10 or so Facebook updates the instant I click the app icon. I'd like Dropbox and Kindle to refresh my document list whenever it changes. I'd like cloud-enabled notes apps to sync/update before I open the app. Of course, this requires some management (user controls,bandwidth limits, battery level, etc.), but nothing Apple can't handle.

EGreg 14y ago

You missed Groups replacing Contacts :) http://groups.qbix.com http://groups.qbix.com