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From the article: >>> "Wouldn’t it be great if you could pay $9.99 a month and read all of the books you want?" I sincerely hope nothing "disrupts" public lib

From the article: >>> "Wouldn’t it be great if you could pay $9.99 a month and read all of the books you want?" I sincerely hope nothing "disrupts" public libraries in my lifetime. As a California resident, I can walk into ANY public library in the state and get a free library card with access to physical books, audiobooks, ebooks. Some branches have laptops, hotspots, tablets, e-readers available to borrow. My local branch even has a Makerspace with 3D printers, laser cutters, sewing machines, and other misc tools.

mapt 2y ago
It might be great, but all the evidence says that we're not willing to nationalize the publishers in order to establish that deal as a durable offer, and that a private-sector publisher would change the terms of the deal the moment they'd gobbled up their competition, or perhaps even before. We would literally require that course of action from the corporate executives via the fiduciary duty. The cycle of enshittification consumes all.
ellegriffin 2y ago
I'm a big fan of the library, but that doesn't mean I can get access to every film that exists on Netflix. I check out a lot of books at the library, but I can't get access to all of the books I would like to access. Should a tech solution replace the library? No. But there should be another option than buying it from Amazon.
THENATHE 2y ago
The only thing that kind of bothers me about libraries is that, as a tech focused individual, basically every book I read or whatever is either an ebook or a audiobook, and I don't want to have to go to the library to pick it out. I understand if I were getting physical books the need to go to a physical location to grab them, but if I'm getting something digital I don't want to have to go to the library. My library doesn't really offer an online catalog that you can just download from, only look at to see what you want to get in the library, and the free library services that they offer like the big ebook repositories don't have any books that I feel like I want to read, so it is just far easier to torrent things or have an audible subscription. Most libraries don't have really cool extra stuff like maker spaces or aquariums or anything remotely interesting other than books and maybe some computers for homeless people to use or whatever, so unless you're physically going there for a book, they're kind of pointless. I'm not saying I don't appreciate and respect libraries, but they really just didn't change with the times around where I am, and it makes them far more inconvenient to use for someone in my particular position than it does to make them convenient. I will still support them as a public access, and I think it would be tragic if they went away, but I wish they would spend a little bit more of whatever budget they get investing on making it. Not a terrible experience to get shit online.
nyarlathotep_ 2y ago
> "Wouldn’t it be great if you could pay $9.99 a month and read all of the books you want?" Yes I'd love more spyware and another platform as a service that reduces ownership of things
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
yellow_postit 2y ago
It’s funny seeing this comment and the article about Seattle libraries reducing digital copies both on HNews front page at the same time. I love libraries. It also feels like all our public institutions in the US are crumbling under assault from all sides.
- j45 2y ago
  Limiting or undermining literacy remains important to those who benefit from it.
  - nox101 2y ago
    what logic leads to this conclusion? I tend to lean to the rising tide lifts all boats. who benefits from illiteracy?
    - Root_Denied 2y ago
      > who benefits from illiteracy? Those already on top. They can afford to educate their own line and hoard resources across generations doing so. They can fail as many times as it takes before they finally succeed because of this. They throw the bodies of the world at their problems until they are solved, which necessitates an uneducated populace that doesn't realize they're chattel and canon fodder to this purpose. A populace that fear collective power, that fears community beyond immediate family, that shies away from actions that would better the world in favor of actions that are less risky personally.
    - grepLeigh 2y ago
      UNESCO published a report on the beneficiaries of illiteracy at global, national, and regional levels (1989): https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000085962 https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000085962
    - yunohn 2y ago
      Elites are always worried about the labor crisis - “nobody wants to work”. Usually this is about blue collar work, and their desire to underpay and overwork service/laborers. Globally, this class of people definitely wants to reduce literacy to keep a stream of manual labor inflowing.
ar_lan 2y ago
If anything did, it's Libby, except that directly just worked alongside libraries instead of disrupting them.
- lannisterstark 2y ago
  I sincerely hope one day they get off their asses and implement casting that their predecessor, overdrive, had. speaking of, btw, your library likely has 'partner' libraries where you can borrow stuff too using overdrive/libby. You can often see a list on top right of the overdrive page of your respective library.
initplus 2y ago
It's not disruption to make me wait 5 weeks to read a digital file through my local library's Libby service. It's an outdated business model using artificial scarcity that isn't effective at getting books onto readers devices. Spotify doesn't make me take out a hold on the artist I want to listen to. Netflix doesn't make me queue to watch the latest release.
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  I don't think it's fair to compare Netflix and Spotify to libraries; you pay for the first two. I agree that it's artificial scarcity and it's hard to feel bad for the publishing companies
  - rockemsockem 2y ago
    All the replies are missing the point. Netflix and Spotify make a fuck ton of money. The library doesn't. As always it's the publishers you should be pissed at.
  - seanp2k2 2y ago
    We pay for libraries through taxes, it’s just that they’re considered a public good so important that everyone has to contribute to pay for them.
  - thayne 2y ago
    I do pay for my library card, because my city doesn't have a library (unless you count bookmobile), and the nearby cities that do have libraries charge you to get a library card if you aren't a resident. And it is approx. $9.99/mo.
    - jacobyoder 2y ago
      Wow... mine is $25/year. I live in a rural county, but work across the border in a less rural county, with a much bigger library system. For $25/year I get access to probably 10x as much stuff through them. I expect it might go to $30 this year.
coding123 2y ago
It would be the most expensive megabyte.
rfarley04 2y ago
This! I'm from Oregon but live in Thailand, where there are ZERO libraries. My absolute favorite thing about going home is just maxxing out my library card and seeing how much I can get through before heading home (I can do ebooks and audiobooks while abroad with Libby but I'm one of those obnoxious people that always prefers physical)
- closetkantian 2y ago
  This is an exaggeration. I also live in Thailand, and I just got a library card at the very stately Neilson Hayes library last week. A bit pricey (3000 THB/year) but amazing ambience since the library was built in 1860.
  - wrp 2y ago
    I haven't been to Thailand, but I assume there are also libraries at the universities. The parent appears to be referring to a tradition of public libraries, so these are not really counterexamples. I've used private English libraries in various countries of the Middle East and East Asia. For the expat community, they were really a treasure before the internet.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      University libraries are sort of a mixed bag. They're not really advertised but they're fairly open to public browsing in some cases, however pretty locked-down in others.
  - rfarley04 2y ago
    Yea $100 bucks a year for a small historical library with a very limited selection of English books (that's 45 minutes away from me) doesn't really compare to a free library that's in every city in the US (or many libraries in bigger cities)
    - cacois 2y ago
      To the above posters credit, it sounds like their claim of exaggeration was spot on (he didn't say it was a lie). You didn't say their libraries don't compare to US ones, you said they don't exist.
sleepycatgirl 2y ago
Yeah... Libraries are very much lovely places. Truly bliss how they can exist... And about books themselves, I hate subscriptions, and all the DRM garbage, and if I can't own the epub without DRM, then I won't buy it. To be honest, the silver lining is that DeDRM exists, so I can actually obtain Japanese novels for my cute e-ink devices, but.. bleh.
eeskildsen 2y ago
Since going full-time on my startup, I often work remotely at my local library. Over my time there, my eyes have been opened to what an absolute treasure public libraries are. Besides the physical books everyone knows about, which are a treasure by themselves, there are many other valuable resources, as you mentioned, including: - The Adobe suite, even including Character Animator - Udemy - Digital access to The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and others - Free notary services - Print magazines and newspapers - Puzzles - Music and films - eBooks and audiobooks ...not to mention community activities like classes, groups, and concerts. Just being physically present in the library has benefited me. When I take breaks, I sometimes pick up a book at random. It may be about sales, health, politics, history. I sometimes come away with new ideas for my business, sometimes am just inspired or informed or amused in general. I encourage anyone reading to stop by a library if you haven't been in a while. See what they offer. You might be surprised. And please, do what you can to support them in whatever way you can, even if that's just to use them, demonstrating the need for them by your patronage. We need these institutions, and they won't be around forever without our support.
yard2010 2y ago
Sure but why would I pay for something I can get for free from the library - either a physical one or genesis?
al_borland 2y ago
I'm continually shocked by the number of people who forget that libraries exist, and what they are.
- linuxftw 2y ago
  It's almost like it's a totally unnecessary public expenditure at this point, and those funds could be used for, IDK, feeding the homeless?
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    That is a false dichotomy; both are easily affordable by the richest country in the world.
  - FrontierProject 2y ago
    Terribly ironic of you to want to divert library funds to homeless when the homeless are some of the most faithful users of libraries in major cities. Homeless aid organizations even base their programs around libraries.
  - lolnope11 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - thefaux 2y ago
    I'm pretty sure that wasteful library budgets is not a significant factor causing hunger or homelessness.
    - veunes 2y ago
      You're absolutely right. Library budgets are typically a small fraction of government spending I think
  - machomaster 2y ago
    If you think that libraries are totally unnecessary public expenditure, then it really tells more about you than about the libraries. The same type of revelation of the person, who says that foodstamps are totally unnecessary expenditure.
jhwhite 2y ago
I was in the local library yesterday for the first time in a while and they had a 3d printer AND THEY WERE HATCHING BABY CHICKS! How awesome is that!
randcraw 2y ago
In contrast, public libraries around the Philly area are essentially dead. Town libraries are so underfunded that their mortar presences are open only until 7 PM M-Th, close at 5 F & Sa, and are closed Sundays. They have greatly reduced their paper book holdings and now rely almost entirely on ebooks, which number fewer than 2000, and interlibrary loans of any kind do not exist. In contrast, public libraries in Michigan are thriving (another place I know well). I have no idea why the difference is so stark. In my over 60 years, I've never lived anywhere so illiterate as Philly.
- vl 2y ago
  Libraries are funded from local taxes, this is why there is a difference.
  - bumby 2y ago
    Are you implying the OP was over-sampling on wealthier Michigan neighborhoods? Because I read their quote as applying to Michigan as a whole, and there are certainly parts of Michigan that are poor enough to have strained local taxes.
    - vl 2y ago
      Not at all. I literally mean that libraries are funded by communities (i.e. private groups, towns, counties, states), and some communities chose to fund them lavishly and some not to fund them at all.
- chrisBob 2y ago
  Where in Michigan? I regularly visit libraries in Ann Arbor, and Whitmore Lake. Both have libraries that are a wonderful resource for the community, but the difference in funding is obvious.
- maxsilver 2y ago
  > public libraries in Michigan are thriving (another place I know well). I have no idea why the difference is so stark. I can't speak for Philly, but Michiganders have a long long-standing community tradition of fighting to defend our public libraries from an onslaught of various attacks. And while the quality of the library system can vary (based on location and local funding authority), Michiganders generally have majority support for public libraries as an institution, and pass successful votes for them regularly. (historic Library voting records) https://www.michigan.gov/libraryofmichigan/-/media/Project/Websites/libraryofmichigan/For-Libraries/Administration/Statistics/Michigan-Public-Library-Millage-Results-2010-to-February-2024-Working-MASTER.pdf?rev=0eb9fe8433ba4a9783268bc240545e7d https://www.michigan.gov/libraryofmichigan/-/media/Project/W... (be careful reading this, not every red/failing vote is bad -- for example, May 2023's red line is a success for that public library, that something bad did not pass)
vl 2y ago
But you realize that you paid for all of this with your local taxes? It’s not like there is a magical place where laser cutters chose to spawn for free.
gavin_gee 2y ago
The licensing costs for Ebooks are unsustainable for library's. The publishers don't want any sharing and so the cost per ebook vs physical is totally out of sync with Ebooks considerably higher. One could argue that publishers are the ones who are strangling the viability of libraries to exist.
- appplication 2y ago
  This feels like something that could/should be legislated. Libraries should not be subject to the same restrictions on content sharing that consumers are. Or maybe one better: eliminate restrictions on content sharing.
winternett 2y ago
In my city certain people are often using them and leaving... uh... errant trace elements of themselves on said resources, especially the public-use computers... :/ I'm not really a germaphobe, but in the age of the pandemic, I think public resources like libraries are under serious threat, just like busses and public transit. It would be nice if there was some sort of reassurance that cleaning and disinfecting was taking place between each use.
- greedo 2y ago
  Lots of libraries let you volunteer if you're so inclined. Also, you can lobby for better library funding so that they can be staffed better. While you're at it, you need to find a better euphemism for homeless/unhomed people...
  - winternett 2y ago
    I was referring to specific people who use the computers to look at Pr0n, which does not at all indicate whether they are homeless or not.

mapt 2y ago

It might be great, but all the evidence says that we're not willing to nationalize the publishers in order to establish that deal as a durable offer, and that a private-sector publisher would change the terms of the deal the moment they'd gobbled up their competition, or perhaps even before. We would literally require that course of action from the corporate executives via the fiduciary duty. The cycle of enshittification consumes all.

ellegriffin 2y ago

I'm a big fan of the library, but that doesn't mean I can get access to every film that exists on Netflix. I check out a lot of books at the library, but I can't get access to all of the books I would like to access. Should a tech solution replace the library? No. But there should be another option than buying it from Amazon.

THENATHE 2y ago

The only thing that kind of bothers me about libraries is that, as a tech focused individual, basically every book I read or whatever is either an ebook or a audiobook, and I don't want to have to go to the library to pick it out. I understand if I were getting physical books the need to go to a physical location to grab them, but if I'm getting something digital I don't want to have to go to the library. My library doesn't really offer an online catalog that you can just download from, only look at to see what you want to get in the library, and the free library services that they offer like the big ebook repositories don't have any books that I feel like I want to read, so it is just far easier to torrent things or have an audible subscription. Most libraries don't have really cool extra stuff like maker spaces or aquariums or anything remotely interesting other than books and maybe some computers for homeless people to use or whatever, so unless you're physically going there for a book, they're kind of pointless. I'm not saying I don't appreciate and respect libraries, but they really just didn't change with the times around where I am, and it makes them far more inconvenient to use for someone in my particular position than it does to make them convenient. I will still support them as a public access, and I think it would be tragic if they went away, but I wish they would spend a little bit more of whatever budget they get investing on making it. Not a terrible experience to get shit online.

nyarlathotep_ 2y ago

> "Wouldn’t it be great if you could pay $9.99 a month and read all of the books you want?" Yes I'd love more spyware and another platform as a service that reduces ownership of things

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

yellow_postit 2y ago

It’s funny seeing this comment and the article about Seattle libraries reducing digital copies both on HNews front page at the same time. I love libraries. It also feels like all our public institutions in the US are crumbling under assault from all sides.

j45 2y ago
Limiting or undermining literacy remains important to those who benefit from it.
- nox101 2y ago
  what logic leads to this conclusion? I tend to lean to the rising tide lifts all boats. who benefits from illiteracy?
  - Root_Denied 2y ago
    > who benefits from illiteracy? Those already on top. They can afford to educate their own line and hoard resources across generations doing so. They can fail as many times as it takes before they finally succeed because of this. They throw the bodies of the world at their problems until they are solved, which necessitates an uneducated populace that doesn't realize they're chattel and canon fodder to this purpose. A populace that fear collective power, that fears community beyond immediate family, that shies away from actions that would better the world in favor of actions that are less risky personally.
  - grepLeigh 2y ago
    UNESCO published a report on the beneficiaries of illiteracy at global, national, and regional levels (1989): https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000085962 https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000085962
  - yunohn 2y ago
    Elites are always worried about the labor crisis - “nobody wants to work”. Usually this is about blue collar work, and their desire to underpay and overwork service/laborers. Globally, this class of people definitely wants to reduce literacy to keep a stream of manual labor inflowing.

ar_lan 2y ago

If anything did, it's Libby, except that directly just worked alongside libraries instead of disrupting them.

lannisterstark 2y ago
I sincerely hope one day they get off their asses and implement casting that their predecessor, overdrive, had. speaking of, btw, your library likely has 'partner' libraries where you can borrow stuff too using overdrive/libby. You can often see a list on top right of the overdrive page of your respective library.

initplus 2y ago

It's not disruption to make me wait 5 weeks to read a digital file through my local library's Libby service. It's an outdated business model using artificial scarcity that isn't effective at getting books onto readers devices. Spotify doesn't make me take out a hold on the artist I want to listen to. Netflix doesn't make me queue to watch the latest release.

rockemsockem 2y ago
I don't think it's fair to compare Netflix and Spotify to libraries; you pay for the first two. I agree that it's artificial scarcity and it's hard to feel bad for the publishing companies
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  All the replies are missing the point. Netflix and Spotify make a fuck ton of money. The library doesn't. As always it's the publishers you should be pissed at.
- seanp2k2 2y ago
  We pay for libraries through taxes, it’s just that they’re considered a public good so important that everyone has to contribute to pay for them.
- thayne 2y ago
  I do pay for my library card, because my city doesn't have a library (unless you count bookmobile), and the nearby cities that do have libraries charge you to get a library card if you aren't a resident. And it is approx. $9.99/mo.
  - jacobyoder 2y ago
    Wow... mine is $25/year. I live in a rural county, but work across the border in a less rural county, with a much bigger library system. For $25/year I get access to probably 10x as much stuff through them. I expect it might go to $30 this year.

coding123 2y ago

It would be the most expensive megabyte.

rfarley04 2y ago

This! I'm from Oregon but live in Thailand, where there are ZERO libraries. My absolute favorite thing about going home is just maxxing out my library card and seeing how much I can get through before heading home (I can do ebooks and audiobooks while abroad with Libby but I'm one of those obnoxious people that always prefers physical)

closetkantian 2y ago
This is an exaggeration. I also live in Thailand, and I just got a library card at the very stately Neilson Hayes library last week. A bit pricey (3000 THB/year) but amazing ambience since the library was built in 1860.
- wrp 2y ago
  I haven't been to Thailand, but I assume there are also libraries at the universities. The parent appears to be referring to a tradition of public libraries, so these are not really counterexamples. I've used private English libraries in various countries of the Middle East and East Asia. For the expat community, they were really a treasure before the internet.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    University libraries are sort of a mixed bag. They're not really advertised but they're fairly open to public browsing in some cases, however pretty locked-down in others.
- rfarley04 2y ago
  Yea $100 bucks a year for a small historical library with a very limited selection of English books (that's 45 minutes away from me) doesn't really compare to a free library that's in every city in the US (or many libraries in bigger cities)
  - cacois 2y ago
    To the above posters credit, it sounds like their claim of exaggeration was spot on (he didn't say it was a lie). You didn't say their libraries don't compare to US ones, you said they don't exist.

sleepycatgirl 2y ago

Yeah... Libraries are very much lovely places. Truly bliss how they can exist... And about books themselves, I hate subscriptions, and all the DRM garbage, and if I can't own the epub without DRM, then I won't buy it. To be honest, the silver lining is that DeDRM exists, so I can actually obtain Japanese novels for my cute e-ink devices, but.. bleh.

eeskildsen 2y ago

Since going full-time on my startup, I often work remotely at my local library. Over my time there, my eyes have been opened to what an absolute treasure public libraries are. Besides the physical books everyone knows about, which are a treasure by themselves, there are many other valuable resources, as you mentioned, including: - The Adobe suite, even including Character Animator - Udemy - Digital access to The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and others - Free notary services - Print magazines and newspapers - Puzzles - Music and films - eBooks and audiobooks ...not to mention community activities like classes, groups, and concerts. Just being physically present in the library has benefited me. When I take breaks, I sometimes pick up a book at random. It may be about sales, health, politics, history. I sometimes come away with new ideas for my business, sometimes am just inspired or informed or amused in general. I encourage anyone reading to stop by a library if you haven't been in a while. See what they offer. You might be surprised. And please, do what you can to support them in whatever way you can, even if that's just to use them, demonstrating the need for them by your patronage. We need these institutions, and they won't be around forever without our support.

yard2010 2y ago

Sure but why would I pay for something I can get for free from the library - either a physical one or genesis?

al_borland 2y ago

I'm continually shocked by the number of people who forget that libraries exist, and what they are.

linuxftw 2y ago
It's almost like it's a totally unnecessary public expenditure at this point, and those funds could be used for, IDK, feeding the homeless?
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  That is a false dichotomy; both are easily affordable by the richest country in the world.
- FrontierProject 2y ago
  Terribly ironic of you to want to divert library funds to homeless when the homeless are some of the most faithful users of libraries in major cities. Homeless aid organizations even base their programs around libraries.
- lolnope11 2y ago
  [flagged]
- thefaux 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure that wasteful library budgets is not a significant factor causing hunger or homelessness.
  - veunes 2y ago
    You're absolutely right. Library budgets are typically a small fraction of government spending I think
- machomaster 2y ago
  If you think that libraries are totally unnecessary public expenditure, then it really tells more about you than about the libraries. The same type of revelation of the person, who says that foodstamps are totally unnecessary expenditure.

jhwhite 2y ago

I was in the local library yesterday for the first time in a while and they had a 3d printer AND THEY WERE HATCHING BABY CHICKS! How awesome is that!

randcraw 2y ago

In contrast, public libraries around the Philly area are essentially dead. Town libraries are so underfunded that their mortar presences are open only until 7 PM M-Th, close at 5 F & Sa, and are closed Sundays. They have greatly reduced their paper book holdings and now rely almost entirely on ebooks, which number fewer than 2000, and interlibrary loans of any kind do not exist. In contrast, public libraries in Michigan are thriving (another place I know well). I have no idea why the difference is so stark. In my over 60 years, I've never lived anywhere so illiterate as Philly.

vl 2y ago
Libraries are funded from local taxes, this is why there is a difference.
- bumby 2y ago
  Are you implying the OP was over-sampling on wealthier Michigan neighborhoods? Because I read their quote as applying to Michigan as a whole, and there are certainly parts of Michigan that are poor enough to have strained local taxes.
  - vl 2y ago
    Not at all. I literally mean that libraries are funded by communities (i.e. private groups, towns, counties, states), and some communities chose to fund them lavishly and some not to fund them at all.
chrisBob 2y ago
Where in Michigan? I regularly visit libraries in Ann Arbor, and Whitmore Lake. Both have libraries that are a wonderful resource for the community, but the difference in funding is obvious.
maxsilver 2y ago
> public libraries in Michigan are thriving (another place I know well). I have no idea why the difference is so stark. I can't speak for Philly, but Michiganders have a long long-standing community tradition of fighting to defend our public libraries from an onslaught of various attacks. And while the quality of the library system can vary (based on location and local funding authority), Michiganders generally have majority support for public libraries as an institution, and pass successful votes for them regularly. (historic Library voting records) https://www.michigan.gov/libraryofmichigan/-/media/Project/Websites/libraryofmichigan/For-Libraries/Administration/Statistics/Michigan-Public-Library-Millage-Results-2010-to-February-2024-Working-MASTER.pdf?rev=0eb9fe8433ba4a9783268bc240545e7d https://www.michigan.gov/libraryofmichigan/-/media/Project/W... (be careful reading this, not every red/failing vote is bad -- for example, May 2023's red line is a success for that public library, that something bad did not pass)

vl 2y ago

But you realize that you paid for all of this with your local taxes? It’s not like there is a magical place where laser cutters chose to spawn for free.

gavin_gee 2y ago

The licensing costs for Ebooks are unsustainable for library's. The publishers don't want any sharing and so the cost per ebook vs physical is totally out of sync with Ebooks considerably higher. One could argue that publishers are the ones who are strangling the viability of libraries to exist.

appplication 2y ago
This feels like something that could/should be legislated. Libraries should not be subject to the same restrictions on content sharing that consumers are. Or maybe one better: eliminate restrictions on content sharing.

winternett 2y ago

In my city certain people are often using them and leaving... uh... errant trace elements of themselves on said resources, especially the public-use computers... :/ I'm not really a germaphobe, but in the age of the pandemic, I think public resources like libraries are under serious threat, just like busses and public transit. It would be nice if there was some sort of reassurance that cleaning and disinfecting was taking place between each use.

greedo 2y ago
Lots of libraries let you volunteer if you're so inclined. Also, you can lobby for better library funding so that they can be staffed better. While you're at it, you need to find a better euphemism for homeless/unhomed people...
- winternett 2y ago
  I was referring to specific people who use the computers to look at Pr0n, which does not at all indicate whether they are homeless or not.