4 ms·

I read paper books because I can flip back and forth without friction, and I can underline and scribble. I don't know why eReader interfaces make these two fun

by wenc 3y ago

I read paper books because I can flip back and forth without friction, and I can underline and scribble. I don't know why eReader interfaces make these two functions -- critical for deep reading -- so difficult. Kindle is optimized for linear reading only. So beach reading and long romances. But if you do the kind of reading that Mortimer Adler's "How to Read a Book" proposes (skimming, inspectional reading, writing notes), you pretty much can't with Kindles.

kstrauser 3y ago
I truly don’t mean to be pedantic, but there’s a giant implicit “for me” in there. I do not want or need to scribble or write in my books for “deep reading”. It’s totally fine if you want to, but that’s your preference and not a general requirement everyone has. I just finished “Moby Dick” on a Kobo. It’s no “Ulysses”, thank heavens, but I’ve never heard anyone describe it as a long romance or a beach read.
- wenc 3y ago
  I think Moby Dick is a romance. I guess the term is confusing in English because people think “love story” but an older use of the word just means a novel with adventure, chivalric elements. There is also a giant implicit “for me” in your preference. It just happens that your preference happens to be one that is mainstream. A lot of types of reading are not linear —- for instance, if you have to read to write a book report, you have to go back, make notes, flip back and forth. A straight through reading will not produce a good book report. I read non-fiction and also great books (of the western canon) and in order to really read to understand, I need to flip back and forth and take notes and engage with the text. My reading instructor always tells me, “good reading is re-reading.” Single pass reading works for entertainment reading, but not for deep reading. (By deep reading, I mean the kind of reading that is taught in Mortimer Adler’s book referenced above) For deep reading you have to interact with the text, most commonly by debating with it in the margins. This is pretty standard for academic reading (say when taking a humanities or literature class). It’s a pretty common use case that eReaders don’t support.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    All of that is perfectly fine, of course, so long as you recognize that it’s not the correct or better way to study literature. It’s the way you were taught and I’m guessing most of us have learned different methods for learning the canon. For example, I take notes in a separate book. The thing crucial to your preferred method is not at all needed for mine. In other words, most ereaders are not optimal for your process but just fine for most of us. And yes, even for classic great books and not just amusement. I suspect you’ll find a higher than average portion of readers here are familiar with the books you’re talking about. We’re a reasonably erudite group.
chrismcb 3y ago
While you can scribble, you can easily highlight and comment on books. Going back and forth is maybe slightly harder than a book, but it isn't "so difficult." I'm not saying reading on a Kindle is better than a paper book. But I didn't think it is as bad s you claim it is. I personally like it because I can read anywhere. I don't need to carry a large heavy book around.
astura 3y ago
WTF is "deep reading?"
- WolfeReader 3y ago
  This link will help you understand: https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=deep%20reading https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=deep%20reading You can take a similar approach for other words and phrases you don't know, too!
- vunderba 3y ago
  It's likely some arbitrary jargon that someone made up. I have my own method of reading, which since we're throwing out pretentious flowery prose, I'm going to call "predictive perusal". For each chapter or titled section, I read the first sentence or title and then mentally position myself as the writer of that section and attempt to predict the contents. For convergence I attempt to traverse further plies. For divergence, I attempt to figure out the root of the difference. EDIT: For the record, I have never felt the need to scribble in the margins of a book. It's far better to take notes on separate media to prevent "preloading" your existing thoughts at the time should you choose to re-read the book years later.
steve1977 3y ago
This is interesting, I'm pretty much the opposite. I only read paper books if there are no electronic versions available. Fiction I read on a Kindle. My deep reading all happens on a PC actually. Not even a tablet. I find it much easier to highlight and annotate reading material with mouse and keyboard and look up references with a proper multi-window screen. Also, while you certainly can underline and write notes on paper, this information then stays on paper and in this book. No way to index it easily, no way to cross-reference etc.
nottorp 3y ago
Looks like you don't read books for entertainment? I believe the original article wasn't about technical/self improvement etc books.
- wenc 3y ago
  I do read for entertainment, but I’m talking about reading to learn (very common use case) rather than reading fiction. I don’t take notes when I’m reading fiction like “A Man Called Ove”. But I do take notes and flip back and forth when I’m reading say Girard.

by wenc 3y ago

kstrauser 3y ago

I truly don’t mean to be pedantic, but there’s a giant implicit “for me” in there. I do not want or need to scribble or write in my books for “deep reading”. It’s totally fine if you want to, but that’s your preference and not a general requirement everyone has. I just finished “Moby Dick” on a Kobo. It’s no “Ulysses”, thank heavens, but I’ve never heard anyone describe it as a long romance or a beach read.

wenc 3y ago
I think Moby Dick is a romance. I guess the term is confusing in English because people think “love story” but an older use of the word just means a novel with adventure, chivalric elements. There is also a giant implicit “for me” in your preference. It just happens that your preference happens to be one that is mainstream. A lot of types of reading are not linear —- for instance, if you have to read to write a book report, you have to go back, make notes, flip back and forth. A straight through reading will not produce a good book report. I read non-fiction and also great books (of the western canon) and in order to really read to understand, I need to flip back and forth and take notes and engage with the text. My reading instructor always tells me, “good reading is re-reading.” Single pass reading works for entertainment reading, but not for deep reading. (By deep reading, I mean the kind of reading that is taught in Mortimer Adler’s book referenced above) For deep reading you have to interact with the text, most commonly by debating with it in the margins. This is pretty standard for academic reading (say when taking a humanities or literature class). It’s a pretty common use case that eReaders don’t support.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  All of that is perfectly fine, of course, so long as you recognize that it’s not the correct or better way to study literature. It’s the way you were taught and I’m guessing most of us have learned different methods for learning the canon. For example, I take notes in a separate book. The thing crucial to your preferred method is not at all needed for mine. In other words, most ereaders are not optimal for your process but just fine for most of us. And yes, even for classic great books and not just amusement. I suspect you’ll find a higher than average portion of readers here are familiar with the books you’re talking about. We’re a reasonably erudite group.

chrismcb 3y ago

While you can scribble, you can easily highlight and comment on books. Going back and forth is maybe slightly harder than a book, but it isn't "so difficult." I'm not saying reading on a Kindle is better than a paper book. But I didn't think it is as bad s you claim it is. I personally like it because I can read anywhere. I don't need to carry a large heavy book around.

astura 3y ago

WTF is "deep reading?"

WolfeReader 3y ago
This link will help you understand: https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=deep%20reading https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=deep%20reading You can take a similar approach for other words and phrases you don't know, too!
vunderba 3y ago
It's likely some arbitrary jargon that someone made up. I have my own method of reading, which since we're throwing out pretentious flowery prose, I'm going to call "predictive perusal". For each chapter or titled section, I read the first sentence or title and then mentally position myself as the writer of that section and attempt to predict the contents. For convergence I attempt to traverse further plies. For divergence, I attempt to figure out the root of the difference. EDIT: For the record, I have never felt the need to scribble in the margins of a book. It's far better to take notes on separate media to prevent "preloading" your existing thoughts at the time should you choose to re-read the book years later.

steve1977 3y ago

This is interesting, I'm pretty much the opposite. I only read paper books if there are no electronic versions available. Fiction I read on a Kindle. My deep reading all happens on a PC actually. Not even a tablet. I find it much easier to highlight and annotate reading material with mouse and keyboard and look up references with a proper multi-window screen. Also, while you certainly can underline and write notes on paper, this information then stays on paper and in this book. No way to index it easily, no way to cross-reference etc.

nottorp 3y ago

Looks like you don't read books for entertainment? I believe the original article wasn't about technical/self improvement etc books.

wenc 3y ago
I do read for entertainment, but I’m talking about reading to learn (very common use case) rather than reading fiction. I don’t take notes when I’m reading fiction like “A Man Called Ove”. But I do take notes and flip back and forth when I’m reading say Girard.