10 ms·

Why have all the TikTok competitors launched by US social media companies been total flops, then?

by ok123456 3y ago

fragmede 3y ago
Have they been flops? Instagram reels and YouTube shorts and Snapchat all seem to be doing fine
- ok123456 3y ago
  All they had to do was destroy their existing platform by shoehorning a short video service whether their users wanted it or not. The recommendation systems in those copy-cat systems are very weak.
caseyy 3y ago
Because TikTok has other goals than capitalistic, and other measures of success. It is a media company that parrots a China's Communist Party line and by virtue of that, receives monopoly benefits in China, which is a substantial market. The company which owns TikTok, ByteDance, has had employees speak about this. The VP and ByteDance's internal CPP committee secretary has stated that their intent is for ByteDance to "transmit the correct political direction, public opinion guidance and value orientation into every business and product line." While employees of a subsidiary company TopBuzz have spoken out about its intent to push CCP sympathizer content to foreign users. ByteDance's history is mired by CCP interventions, it is a company heavily managed by the communist party, with multiple branches closed for non-compliance. It is allowed to exist by the CCP because, so it has been claimed very publicly, it toes the CCP's political line. That's how it measures success. Its success comes from this compliance. TikTok may very well be a commercial flop in the West and still be in business, operating very well.
- aurareturn 3y ago
  This just sounds like a bunch of excuses for supporting a protectionist set of policies.
  - caseyy 3y ago
    Well, I can't make it sound differently for you. But do you have any counter-arguments? Like any claim that ByteDance isn't receiving existentially important benefits by being in CCP's good graces? Or does it just sound a certain way without much grounding in facts?
    - aurareturn 3y ago
      Do you have solid evidence that ByteDance receives important benefits from CCP? It seems to me that it's the opposite of what you wrote and that the CCP is making it much harder for ByteDance to do business and dominate. If I'm ByteDance, I'd rather have the CCP distance itself from me and not interfere with anything. That'd help more. To me, all governments protect their own big industries. You don't think Meta has lobbyists behind the bill? You don't think Microsoft does - whom has made it clear that they're interesting in buying TikTok - as well? Meta's war against Tiktok: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/faceboo... https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/meta-facebook-tiktok-pr-campaign-1235218866/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/meta-facebook-tiktok-p... The Huawei ban hugely benefited Apple, Cisco, and Samsung. But the Huawei ban also fired up China. After 5 years, Huawei is now making a huge comeback but this time, without dependencies on crucial American technology. Look at the reports of Huawei sales and Apple's decline in sales in China in Q1 2024. China will now compete against America's semiconductor industry - instead of being buyers. The world also sees lesser of the US because of the Huawei ban. Now even some European countries are weary of relying too much on America. So while the Huawei ban did initially boost American companies, the damage is everlasting and America can't deny that it's now in a protectionist state. You can fool the public through propaganda (such as "China bad") but not governments around the world.
      - ok123456 3y ago
        Usually, these accusations are a form of projection. They have Facebook and Google collecting data for US intelligence agencies and assume China is doing the same.
jtriangle 3y ago
Because their algo is really, really good. Scary good. And it had a ridiculous amount of money funding the marketing machine behind it to onboard users. US startups don't have access to that kind of capital, and even if their algo is better than tiktok, users make or break it, so they can't really get off the ground. I'd say the closest idea is snapchat, and, that was/is massively hampered by the semi-slimy reputation it has. Sure it's profitable, but, had it never been used to send lewd images among college kids, it could very well have been as big as tiktok.

Why have all the TikTok competitors launched by US social media companies been total flops, then?

fragmede 3y ago

Have they been flops? Instagram reels and YouTube shorts and Snapchat all seem to be doing fine

ok123456 3y ago
All they had to do was destroy their existing platform by shoehorning a short video service whether their users wanted it or not. The recommendation systems in those copy-cat systems are very weak.

caseyy 3y ago

Because TikTok has other goals than capitalistic, and other measures of success. It is a media company that parrots a China's Communist Party line and by virtue of that, receives monopoly benefits in China, which is a substantial market. The company which owns TikTok, ByteDance, has had employees speak about this. The VP and ByteDance's internal CPP committee secretary has stated that their intent is for ByteDance to "transmit the correct political direction, public opinion guidance and value orientation into every business and product line." While employees of a subsidiary company TopBuzz have spoken out about its intent to push CCP sympathizer content to foreign users. ByteDance's history is mired by CCP interventions, it is a company heavily managed by the communist party, with multiple branches closed for non-compliance. It is allowed to exist by the CCP because, so it has been claimed very publicly, it toes the CCP's political line. That's how it measures success. Its success comes from this compliance. TikTok may very well be a commercial flop in the West and still be in business, operating very well.

aurareturn 3y ago
This just sounds like a bunch of excuses for supporting a protectionist set of policies.
- caseyy 3y ago
  Well, I can't make it sound differently for you. But do you have any counter-arguments? Like any claim that ByteDance isn't receiving existentially important benefits by being in CCP's good graces? Or does it just sound a certain way without much grounding in facts?
  - aurareturn 3y ago
    Do you have solid evidence that ByteDance receives important benefits from CCP? It seems to me that it's the opposite of what you wrote and that the CCP is making it much harder for ByteDance to do business and dominate. If I'm ByteDance, I'd rather have the CCP distance itself from me and not interfere with anything. That'd help more. To me, all governments protect their own big industries. You don't think Meta has lobbyists behind the bill? You don't think Microsoft does - whom has made it clear that they're interesting in buying TikTok - as well? Meta's war against Tiktok: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/facebook-tiktok-targeted-victory/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/faceboo... https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/meta-facebook-tiktok-pr-campaign-1235218866/ https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/meta-facebook-tiktok-p... The Huawei ban hugely benefited Apple, Cisco, and Samsung. But the Huawei ban also fired up China. After 5 years, Huawei is now making a huge comeback but this time, without dependencies on crucial American technology. Look at the reports of Huawei sales and Apple's decline in sales in China in Q1 2024. China will now compete against America's semiconductor industry - instead of being buyers. The world also sees lesser of the US because of the Huawei ban. Now even some European countries are weary of relying too much on America. So while the Huawei ban did initially boost American companies, the damage is everlasting and America can't deny that it's now in a protectionist state. You can fool the public through propaganda (such as "China bad") but not governments around the world.
    - ok123456 3y ago
      Usually, these accusations are a form of projection. They have Facebook and Google collecting data for US intelligence agencies and assume China is doing the same.

jtriangle 3y ago

Because their algo is really, really good. Scary good. And it had a ridiculous amount of money funding the marketing machine behind it to onboard users. US startups don't have access to that kind of capital, and even if their algo is better than tiktok, users make or break it, so they can't really get off the ground. I'd say the closest idea is snapchat, and, that was/is massively hampered by the semi-slimy reputation it has. Sure it's profitable, but, had it never been used to send lewd images among college kids, it could very well have been as big as tiktok.