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Is your argument that we shouldn’t ban TikTok because the CCP can manipulate upset users? Isn’t that one of the reasons we’re banning it in the first place?

caseyy 3y ago
There is such a thing as "too late". For example, consider Brexit from the perspective or a remainer. It's quite reasonable to believe that the leave referendum would have failed if it wasn't done at a time when (sometimes a bit vague) frustration at the EU has escalated to the point that it had. It's not always "better late than never". For a less political example, health interventions can be too late and not better late than never. Some cancer care that is long overdue is better to forego. The patient would suffer less and overall have a better quality of their remaining life with palliative care. Business also follows this rule sometimes. If the right decision isn't made in time, it can later become throwing good money after bad and it's better to weather the consequences of the decision that wasn't made in time. This is also explored in broken power laws. What is a good idea up to a certain point can turn into a bad idea very suddenly afterwards.
jtriangle 3y ago
No, not making an argument, just a comment that, if you're worried about the CCP data mining US users, banning tiktok is a bad way to fix that problem. Realistically, this falls under the "solving a human problem with tech", which is to say, it's not going to work. What you need to do is to educate the users. The problem is, the USGOV is data mining US users, and, if they were to educate users on how to avoid CCP data mining, they'd also defacto be educating them on how to avoid domestic data mining as well. Of course, that would be a net-positive for society as a whole, it'll just never happen. They could also pass comprehensive user privacy protections, which, they won't do for similar reasons. What you're really seeing play out here, is USGOV/CCP incentives matching, and the USGOV having a hard time navigating this legally because we do have at least some protection against massive unilateral government actions, whereas China has nothing of the sort. You're free to think about data mining, narrative shaping, etc, any way you'd like. I know many think that it's nbd, many think that only the CCP doing it is bad because the USGOV is a force for good, many think that the CCP doing it is ok but the USGOV doing it is bad. I really do think that if you think the CCP is bad, and tiktok is used by them somehow, directly going after tiktok is a very bad idea that'll likely result in a lost court case and tiktok being a permanent fixture, along with any other app in a similar situation, because calling China a foreign adversary is, well, extremely hard to prove in court, no matter how true it is. Doing nothing would be better, and, if something must be done, teaching people what they're dealing with is the best option, even at the expense of a loss of domestic capabilities.

caseyy 3y ago

There is such a thing as "too late". For example, consider Brexit from the perspective or a remainer. It's quite reasonable to believe that the leave referendum would have failed if it wasn't done at a time when (sometimes a bit vague) frustration at the EU has escalated to the point that it had. It's not always "better late than never". For a less political example, health interventions can be too late and not better late than never. Some cancer care that is long overdue is better to forego. The patient would suffer less and overall have a better quality of their remaining life with palliative care. Business also follows this rule sometimes. If the right decision isn't made in time, it can later become throwing good money after bad and it's better to weather the consequences of the decision that wasn't made in time. This is also explored in broken power laws. What is a good idea up to a certain point can turn into a bad idea very suddenly afterwards.

jtriangle 3y ago

No, not making an argument, just a comment that, if you're worried about the CCP data mining US users, banning tiktok is a bad way to fix that problem. Realistically, this falls under the "solving a human problem with tech", which is to say, it's not going to work. What you need to do is to educate the users. The problem is, the USGOV is data mining US users, and, if they were to educate users on how to avoid CCP data mining, they'd also defacto be educating them on how to avoid domestic data mining as well. Of course, that would be a net-positive for society as a whole, it'll just never happen. They could also pass comprehensive user privacy protections, which, they won't do for similar reasons. What you're really seeing play out here, is USGOV/CCP incentives matching, and the USGOV having a hard time navigating this legally because we do have at least some protection against massive unilateral government actions, whereas China has nothing of the sort. You're free to think about data mining, narrative shaping, etc, any way you'd like. I know many think that it's nbd, many think that only the CCP doing it is bad because the USGOV is a force for good, many think that the CCP doing it is ok but the USGOV doing it is bad. I really do think that if you think the CCP is bad, and tiktok is used by them somehow, directly going after tiktok is a very bad idea that'll likely result in a lost court case and tiktok being a permanent fixture, along with any other app in a similar situation, because calling China a foreign adversary is, well, extremely hard to prove in court, no matter how true it is. Doing nothing would be better, and, if something must be done, teaching people what they're dealing with is the best option, even at the expense of a loss of domestic capabilities.