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Every US publicly traded company of course has to kowtow [0] to the US national agenda. How else could it work? The cold war with China is here to stay. Trump

Every US publicly traded company of course has to kowtow [0] to the US national agenda. How else could it work? The cold war with China is here to stay. Trump started it, Biden continued it, and now it's on the agenda for good. China is openly striving to supplant the US as the premier power. [1] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowtow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowtow [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-26/xi-s-vow-of-world-dominance-by-2049-sends-chill-through-markets https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-26/xi-s-vow-...

mschuster91 3y ago
There's a difference between playing along with what the US government wants and having to have a parallel chain of command with CCP "party cells" in your company. And there's more than enough US companies actively opposing what the US government want, most notably Google who went and encrypted all their internal traffic so that it couldn't be tapped any more.
- FredPret 3y ago
  > There's a difference between playing along with what the US government wants and having to have a parallel chain of command with CCP "party cells" in your company. That's exactly what I'm saying. TikTok needs to play ball (be sold in the US) or get banned. It's one thing to fight against various regulations like Google did in your example, but when you're actively seeking to undermine the nation, that's a whole different ballgame.
alephnerd 3y ago
> Trump started it It was the OPM breach [0] and the brutal eradication of the CIA network within China [1] that tipped the scales Mutual US-China espionage has been common for decades, but these two actions were a step too far. [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Manageme... [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932012_killing_of_CIA_sources_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932012_killing_of...
- FredPret 3y ago
  I did not know about [0]. All I heard from up here in Canada was when Trump starting saying "China" a lot.
  - Modified3019 3y ago
    And it wasn’t just the CIA roundup, it was in multiple political/economic/military domains around 2012 that China started making clear their decision to suddenly reverse what had been decades of putting in a ton of effort and money into embracing the west. This caught many by surprise because the behavior seems bizarre from a western point of view. Instead China became increasingly aggressive to it’s neighbors and started using the west as adversaries to try to fan the flames of its version of nationalism, in order to distract from their many home issues. There was a reluctantly growing recognition of this, but Trump finally forced the public recognition of the issue in his characteristic camera grabbing way. Whether his efforts and characterization of the issue where ultimately helpful or harmful… is quite debated. Likewise our current attempts at a response continues to be occasionally questionable. If you are curious beyond more than this extremely barebones summary, there are a mile of books and days of videos on the topic, though I don’t have any personal recommendations offhand since that isn’t really my wheelhouse, just something I watched build up over the years and start effecting my industry (agriculture). It’s similar to how Europe had increasingly considered Russia to be moving into their big umbrella despite the occasional murder here and there. Hence the oil pipelines and deals. It took until the second time that Putin made his move on Ukraine before the illusion that Russia was ever a geopolitical friend was finally shattered.
    - alephnerd 3y ago
      > but Trump finally forced the public recognition of the issue in his characteristic camera grabbing way Not really, and I was there when all this happened in the Obama admin and am still friends with people who worked on this. The reality is after the OPM hack there was bipartisan support at the policymaker level to tamp down on the Chinese government for major transgressions. Chinese officials began getting sanctioned and most of the policies Trump boasted about were written and passed before his time. Presidents don't really do much regarding these topics - it's always career bureaucrats and policymakers who are actually setting the gears in motion for these kinds of changes.

mschuster91 3y ago

There's a difference between playing along with what the US government wants and having to have a parallel chain of command with CCP "party cells" in your company. And there's more than enough US companies actively opposing what the US government want, most notably Google who went and encrypted all their internal traffic so that it couldn't be tapped any more.

FredPret 3y ago
> There's a difference between playing along with what the US government wants and having to have a parallel chain of command with CCP "party cells" in your company. That's exactly what I'm saying. TikTok needs to play ball (be sold in the US) or get banned. It's one thing to fight against various regulations like Google did in your example, but when you're actively seeking to undermine the nation, that's a whole different ballgame.

alephnerd 3y ago

> Trump started it It was the OPM breach [0] and the brutal eradication of the CIA network within China [1] that tipped the scales Mutual US-China espionage has been common for decades, but these two actions were a step too far. [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Management_data_breach https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Personnel_Manageme... [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932012_killing_of_CIA_sources_in_China https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932012_killing_of...

FredPret 3y ago
I did not know about [0]. All I heard from up here in Canada was when Trump starting saying "China" a lot.
- Modified3019 3y ago
  And it wasn’t just the CIA roundup, it was in multiple political/economic/military domains around 2012 that China started making clear their decision to suddenly reverse what had been decades of putting in a ton of effort and money into embracing the west. This caught many by surprise because the behavior seems bizarre from a western point of view. Instead China became increasingly aggressive to it’s neighbors and started using the west as adversaries to try to fan the flames of its version of nationalism, in order to distract from their many home issues. There was a reluctantly growing recognition of this, but Trump finally forced the public recognition of the issue in his characteristic camera grabbing way. Whether his efforts and characterization of the issue where ultimately helpful or harmful… is quite debated. Likewise our current attempts at a response continues to be occasionally questionable. If you are curious beyond more than this extremely barebones summary, there are a mile of books and days of videos on the topic, though I don’t have any personal recommendations offhand since that isn’t really my wheelhouse, just something I watched build up over the years and start effecting my industry (agriculture). It’s similar to how Europe had increasingly considered Russia to be moving into their big umbrella despite the occasional murder here and there. Hence the oil pipelines and deals. It took until the second time that Putin made his move on Ukraine before the illusion that Russia was ever a geopolitical friend was finally shattered.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    > but Trump finally forced the public recognition of the issue in his characteristic camera grabbing way Not really, and I was there when all this happened in the Obama admin and am still friends with people who worked on this. The reality is after the OPM hack there was bipartisan support at the policymaker level to tamp down on the Chinese government for major transgressions. Chinese officials began getting sanctioned and most of the policies Trump boasted about were written and passed before his time. Presidents don't really do much regarding these topics - it's always career bureaucrats and policymakers who are actually setting the gears in motion for these kinds of changes.