4 ms·

So this is never going to fly then. Why would a food company use this coating at all? It's not in their interest - wasted food means more money for the company.

by rytis 14y ago

kijin 14y ago
That was my first thought, too. A million tons of food saved = a million tons of food unsold. Unless, of course, the bottles are so slippery that people inadvertently pour a lot more ketchup than they used to. That would be a million tons of food wasted = more money for Heinz.
TeMPOraL 14y ago
> It's not in their interest - wasted food means more money for the company. It's sick. But I keep wondering - why no one in this industry seems to be trying to be good and use it as a marketing advantage? "We do not try to make profits on stealing from you by wasting materials and energy like everyone else out there". I'd definitely try to buy as much as I could from such company.
- rytis 14y ago
  Capitalism at its best - it's all about profit and outsmarting the competition. There are companies out there that try to do the right stuff - organic food, healthy stuff, etc, etc. But they struggle. They struggle because 'the good stuff' costs more to produce, therefore they have to charge more. Whilst the 'bad' companies sell unhealthy stuff at a lot lower price, thus yielding better profits. Which in turn means better advertising, better position on shelves, etc. Society is not ready for the change yet. You would do the right thing, but I'm guessing 90% of population, just don't care.
  - driverdan 14y ago
    I think you've been misinformed about organic food. It's not healthier, isn't necessarily better for the environment, and the profit margins are much higher.
    - Retric 14y ago
      Modern pesticides are not particularly toxic, but they are also not completely safe. They often break down into things like estrogen, so we know low doses are not going to kill you but they are still biologically active. Which set's up a cost benefit analysis of tiny positive vs significant cost. Modern farming is more harmful to the area being farmed, but takes significantly less land to produce the same food which in theory means you can let more land go fallow (wild). As to profit margins farming in the US is only profitable though subsidy's so that's just a question of government incentives. PS: Not that I actually shop for organic food, but it's not completely irrational behavior to do so.
      - dingfeng_quek 14y ago
        I assume you assert that out of ignorance. Modern pesticides are extremely toxic in small quantities, some with immediate and easily observed effects, others with delayed and long-lasting effects. Regulatory limits are often based on immediate observable effects. Delayed hard-to-observe problems tend to be ignored. See the toxicity of organophosphates and COPIND, and the history of its regulation (when regulations were enforced; when the upper limit was revised to consider the problems of COPIND). There are research results that suggest some Americans have a sufficiently high dietary intake of pesticides to affect their lives. Furthermore, for many pesticides, there's no way for the policy makers and public to estimate its toxicity, because research is often suppressed, dissemination of toxicity information is often suppressed, policy change is often suppressed, etc. It's a well-established problem with the political-economy of America. In many less-developed-countries, MNCs like Monsanto and Bayer have used aggressive and deceptive sales techniques and misrepresentation of product toxicity to persuade farmers to use pesticides far in excess (over 100 times the level of) of regulatory limits in the US. These products do get exported. Search for such news and policy discussions in India and China. Lastly, pesticides don't "often" break down into chemicals similar, in biological activity, to estrogen. Pesticides can cause quick death, physical deformities in fetuses and young children, autism, epilepsy, mental retardation, cancer, organ failure, rashes, ulcers, can be used in biological warfare, etc. Some pesticides take decades to breakdown; Some pesticides have metabolites that are extremely toxic. Do refer to toxicity and metabolism research and data when evaluating the health risks of pesticide exposure and consumption, and/or consult an expert with little conflict of interest. PS: Organic farm allows the use of (some classes of) pesticides as well.
- otoburb 14y ago
  My wife used to be on a team that managed Heinz ketchup. When I spoke to her about this, the decision analysis usually runs as follows: 1) Does this incremental improvement (i.e. non-stick coating) provide a distinct competitive advantage that is backed by clear and pressing consumer demand? 2) How much will it cost in terms of: i) disrupting/modifying existing at-scale manufacturing/bottling processes ii) fixed cost increase iii) potential liability There is usually a laundry list of pressing consumer needs with associated costs, balanced against market share numbers (usually culled from Nielson data) and satisfying power distribution channel partners. The non-stick coating is, afaik, not high on the list of consumer demands for Heinz ketchup.
raldi 14y ago
Then why did ketchup companies start putting the opening on the bottom of the bottle? Consumer convenience is a competitive advantage. Once people get used to slippery-coated bottles, they'll avoid products without it.
mhb 14y ago
So do smaller containers for the same price. When you shop do you pay attention to how much usable product you're buying?
- rytis 14y ago
  Call me cheapskate, but I always look at £/100ml part of the label.
  - stromstad 14y ago
    I do that too (except it usually says kr/l or kr/kg here.). Sometimes I end up buying more than I need, though, because the unit price for bigger packets are that much lower. Doesn't mean that the packet will last me any longer, specially if it's chips, chocolate or fizzy drinks.
mephi5t0 14y ago
The ketchup is just a good demonstration. they can apply that coating to a million other things... Pipes, tubes... Take a smaller bottle, cover it outside and you got yourself a dildo. It's all about potential possibilities not "food" :)

So this is never going to fly then. Why would a food company use this coating at all? It's not in their interest - wasted food means more money for the company.

by rytis 14y ago

So this is never going to fly then. Why would a food company use this coating at all? It's not in their interest - wasted food means more money for the company.

kijin 14y ago

That was my first thought, too. A million tons of food saved = a million tons of food unsold. Unless, of course, the bottles are so slippery that people inadvertently pour a lot more ketchup than they used to. That would be a million tons of food wasted = more money for Heinz.

TeMPOraL 14y ago

> It's not in their interest - wasted food means more money for the company. It's sick. But I keep wondering - why no one in this industry seems to be trying to be good and use it as a marketing advantage? "We do not try to make profits on stealing from you by wasting materials and energy like everyone else out there". I'd definitely try to buy as much as I could from such company.

rytis 14y ago
Capitalism at its best - it's all about profit and outsmarting the competition. There are companies out there that try to do the right stuff - organic food, healthy stuff, etc, etc. But they struggle. They struggle because 'the good stuff' costs more to produce, therefore they have to charge more. Whilst the 'bad' companies sell unhealthy stuff at a lot lower price, thus yielding better profits. Which in turn means better advertising, better position on shelves, etc. Society is not ready for the change yet. You would do the right thing, but I'm guessing 90% of population, just don't care.
- driverdan 14y ago
  I think you've been misinformed about organic food. It's not healthier, isn't necessarily better for the environment, and the profit margins are much higher.
  - Retric 14y ago
    Modern pesticides are not particularly toxic, but they are also not completely safe. They often break down into things like estrogen, so we know low doses are not going to kill you but they are still biologically active. Which set's up a cost benefit analysis of tiny positive vs significant cost. Modern farming is more harmful to the area being farmed, but takes significantly less land to produce the same food which in theory means you can let more land go fallow (wild). As to profit margins farming in the US is only profitable though subsidy's so that's just a question of government incentives. PS: Not that I actually shop for organic food, but it's not completely irrational behavior to do so.
    - dingfeng_quek 14y ago
      I assume you assert that out of ignorance. Modern pesticides are extremely toxic in small quantities, some with immediate and easily observed effects, others with delayed and long-lasting effects. Regulatory limits are often based on immediate observable effects. Delayed hard-to-observe problems tend to be ignored. See the toxicity of organophosphates and COPIND, and the history of its regulation (when regulations were enforced; when the upper limit was revised to consider the problems of COPIND). There are research results that suggest some Americans have a sufficiently high dietary intake of pesticides to affect their lives. Furthermore, for many pesticides, there's no way for the policy makers and public to estimate its toxicity, because research is often suppressed, dissemination of toxicity information is often suppressed, policy change is often suppressed, etc. It's a well-established problem with the political-economy of America. In many less-developed-countries, MNCs like Monsanto and Bayer have used aggressive and deceptive sales techniques and misrepresentation of product toxicity to persuade farmers to use pesticides far in excess (over 100 times the level of) of regulatory limits in the US. These products do get exported. Search for such news and policy discussions in India and China. Lastly, pesticides don't "often" break down into chemicals similar, in biological activity, to estrogen. Pesticides can cause quick death, physical deformities in fetuses and young children, autism, epilepsy, mental retardation, cancer, organ failure, rashes, ulcers, can be used in biological warfare, etc. Some pesticides take decades to breakdown; Some pesticides have metabolites that are extremely toxic. Do refer to toxicity and metabolism research and data when evaluating the health risks of pesticide exposure and consumption, and/or consult an expert with little conflict of interest. PS: Organic farm allows the use of (some classes of) pesticides as well.
otoburb 14y ago
My wife used to be on a team that managed Heinz ketchup. When I spoke to her about this, the decision analysis usually runs as follows: 1) Does this incremental improvement (i.e. non-stick coating) provide a distinct competitive advantage that is backed by clear and pressing consumer demand? 2) How much will it cost in terms of: i) disrupting/modifying existing at-scale manufacturing/bottling processes ii) fixed cost increase iii) potential liability There is usually a laundry list of pressing consumer needs with associated costs, balanced against market share numbers (usually culled from Nielson data) and satisfying power distribution channel partners. The non-stick coating is, afaik, not high on the list of consumer demands for Heinz ketchup.

raldi 14y ago

Then why did ketchup companies start putting the opening on the bottom of the bottle? Consumer convenience is a competitive advantage. Once people get used to slippery-coated bottles, they'll avoid products without it.

mhb 14y ago

So do smaller containers for the same price. When you shop do you pay attention to how much usable product you're buying?

rytis 14y ago
Call me cheapskate, but I always look at £/100ml part of the label.
- stromstad 14y ago
  I do that too (except it usually says kr/l or kr/kg here.). Sometimes I end up buying more than I need, though, because the unit price for bigger packets are that much lower. Doesn't mean that the packet will last me any longer, specially if it's chips, chocolate or fizzy drinks.

mephi5t0 14y ago

The ketchup is just a good demonstration. they can apply that coating to a million other things... Pipes, tubes... Take a smaller bottle, cover it outside and you got yourself a dildo. It's all about potential possibilities not "food" :)