5 ms·

This looks like an excuse, frankly. Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. I wouldn't

This looks like an excuse, frankly. Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff.

melenaboija 3y ago
> Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. Grapes cannot resist any weather conditions, obviously. Otherwise there would be grapes growing anywhere in the planet [1] > I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff. Which ones you think and why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? [2] [1] https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-climate.html https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-clim... [2] https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583/04/24/freixenet-presenta-un-erte-para-600-personas-por-la-sequia-.html https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583...
- pvaldes 3y ago
  > why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? Not a single big company would follow that path. Bad results scare investors
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
Is it a joke? You said raisins so I sort of think it must be. If not a joke I guess I'm just going to have to assume you're wrong. Why? Wine is generally imported from very few regions in the world. If Grapes were so easy to grow to the quality required to make good wine (a subject which admittedly I know nothing about as I hate wine) then I suppose there would not be such a focus on these few regions and probably the grape harvest and wine making of those regions would mean pretty much nothing to their economies, but evidently they are very meaningful. If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. Aside from that though, to double check my assumptions I searched and evidently https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b/gregory_jones/posts/climate-grapes-and-wine https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b... which says Grapevines are grown in regions across the globe where temperatures during the growing season average 55-70°F (13-21°C; see below). These temperature limits are found mostly in the mid-latitude regions of the continents. I don't know much about the value of that particular web site, but pretty much all the other places I saw anything on the subject seemed to confirm, which would fall in line with my preconceptions that this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range in order for products made from it not to have become commodified.
- pvaldes 3y ago
  > If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. You guess wrong [1]. Check the concepts of offer-demand and markets. Most of the value of the bottle is just taxes. > this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range A very limited range indeed. This fruit is cultured in Russia, Australia, Portugal, USA, Germany, Italy and Chile. And is not cultured on many other countries because religious beliefs. Grapes can grow in a lot of places, but we aren't talking about that; We are talking about a particular Spanish area, and Spain grows vine in every place with weather capable to grow vine, from Galicia to Canary Islands. What grapes don't grow in Antarctic (they could grow perfectly [2]) is not related with the allegedly problems that one Catalonian vine maker claim to have. [1] Well, there is very cheap and good home-made vine available in some places so in that sense you are right). [2] Making vine in Antarctic is just anti-economic, but not technologically impossible. Would somebody agree to pay one billion dollars each bottle, we would have a crop of polar vine in a few years. This is for sure, grapes can be cultivated in a big pot
  - moltar 3y ago
    You forgot Canada! South Ontario wine ftw! https://winecountryontario.ca/ https://winecountryontario.ca/
  - melenaboija 3y ago
    > Making vine in Antarctic is just anti-economic, but not technologically impossible. Would somebody agree to pay one billion dollars each bottle, we would have a crop of polar vine in a few years. This is for sure, grapes can be cultivated in a big pot Exactly the main point of this thread…
    - pvaldes 3y ago
      Freixenet is a big company. [If the demand was sustained] they should have all the economical muscle necessary to bring the amount of water that grapes need. This should be seen in a bigger economical perspective. Since 2017, around 8000 Spanish companies quit Catalonia (including many, if not all, of the really big ones like banks and car makers). They have a strong touristic sector, but lost a lot of muscle in other areas by their separatist adventures. The main problem with that wine maker could be that they were fiercely Catalonian, but against the separatism so they got crushed between two fronts. Their own local government recommended -not- to buy Freixenet products. Do you imagine the Texas governor saying publicly "don't buy products of Texas"?. Maybe this layoff is just a way to press the local government, I don't know. Many of the things happening in the so called Spanish Donbass are just insane. Some of the problems with the water in the region are just by neglect of the infrastructures that leak, other by criminal wildfires, and in other cases the water is being directly stolen. All the money to fix that, was divested to promote the language and national identity.

This looks like an excuse, frankly. Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff.

melenaboija 3y ago

> Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. Grapes cannot resist any weather conditions, obviously. Otherwise there would be grapes growing anywhere in the planet [1] > I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff. Which ones you think and why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? [2] [1] https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-climate.html https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-clim... [2] https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583/04/24/freixenet-presenta-un-erte-para-600-personas-por-la-sequia-.html https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583...

pvaldes 3y ago
> why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? Not a single big company would follow that path. Bad results scare investors

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

Is it a joke? You said raisins so I sort of think it must be. If not a joke I guess I'm just going to have to assume you're wrong. Why? Wine is generally imported from very few regions in the world. If Grapes were so easy to grow to the quality required to make good wine (a subject which admittedly I know nothing about as I hate wine) then I suppose there would not be such a focus on these few regions and probably the grape harvest and wine making of those regions would mean pretty much nothing to their economies, but evidently they are very meaningful. If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. Aside from that though, to double check my assumptions I searched and evidently https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b/gregory_jones/posts/climate-grapes-and-wine https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b... which says Grapevines are grown in regions across the globe where temperatures during the growing season average 55-70°F (13-21°C; see below). These temperature limits are found mostly in the mid-latitude regions of the continents. I don't know much about the value of that particular web site, but pretty much all the other places I saw anything on the subject seemed to confirm, which would fall in line with my preconceptions that this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range in order for products made from it not to have become commodified.

pvaldes 3y ago
> If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. You guess wrong [1]. Check the concepts of offer-demand and markets. Most of the value of the bottle is just taxes. > this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range A very limited range indeed. This fruit is cultured in Russia, Australia, Portugal, USA, Germany, Italy and Chile. And is not cultured on many other countries because religious beliefs. Grapes can grow in a lot of places, but we aren't talking about that; We are talking about a particular Spanish area, and Spain grows vine in every place with weather capable to grow vine, from Galicia to Canary Islands. What grapes don't grow in Antarctic (they could grow perfectly [2]) is not related with the allegedly problems that one Catalonian vine maker claim to have. [1] Well, there is very cheap and good home-made vine available in some places so in that sense you are right). [2] Making vine in Antarctic is just anti-economic, but not technologically impossible. Would somebody agree to pay one billion dollars each bottle, we would have a crop of polar vine in a few years. This is for sure, grapes can be cultivated in a big pot
- moltar 3y ago
  You forgot Canada! South Ontario wine ftw! https://winecountryontario.ca/ https://winecountryontario.ca/
- melenaboija 3y ago
  > Making vine in Antarctic is just anti-economic, but not technologically impossible. Would somebody agree to pay one billion dollars each bottle, we would have a crop of polar vine in a few years. This is for sure, grapes can be cultivated in a big pot Exactly the main point of this thread…
  - pvaldes 3y ago
    Freixenet is a big company. [If the demand was sustained] they should have all the economical muscle necessary to bring the amount of water that grapes need. This should be seen in a bigger economical perspective. Since 2017, around 8000 Spanish companies quit Catalonia (including many, if not all, of the really big ones like banks and car makers). They have a strong touristic sector, but lost a lot of muscle in other areas by their separatist adventures. The main problem with that wine maker could be that they were fiercely Catalonian, but against the separatism so they got crushed between two fronts. Their own local government recommended -not- to buy Freixenet products. Do you imagine the Texas governor saying publicly "don't buy products of Texas"?. Maybe this layoff is just a way to press the local government, I don't know. Many of the things happening in the so called Spanish Donbass are just insane. Some of the problems with the water in the region are just by neglect of the infrastructures that leak, other by criminal wildfires, and in other cases the water is being directly stolen. All the money to fix that, was divested to promote the language and national identity.