9 ms·

I know I'm fighting the overwhelming tide here, but what the hell is "mixed reality"? What is "the metaverse"? For that matter what is "artificial intelligence"

by woopsn 2y ago

I know I'm fighting the overwhelming tide here, but what the hell is "mixed reality"? What is "the metaverse"? For that matter what is "artificial intelligence"? Stop trying to dazzle and just use words, if the technology is revolutionary then it will be. An automobile is not the magic carpet, a cell phone is not a soulmate, etc. Otherwise fuck it -- TV is virtual reality, getting high augmented reality, TI-84 calculators are artificial intelligence, libraries are the metaverse, ...

neverokay 2y ago
We are like gamers that no longer perceive the improvement in graphics across generations. Talk to Siri and then talk to ChatGPT if you are feeling that clueless.
- woopsn 2y ago
  I do. I've said it before too -- I like that they called it a "generative pretrained transformer" aka GPT.
  - neverokay 2y ago
    You can make gpt be an imaginary friend for children if you want to. The technology is the technology, the application of it is the magic.
HL33tibCe7 2y ago
Meta are trying to dazzle you with words because there is nothing fundamental behind any of this metaverse stuff
idle_zealot 2y ago
These are not complex or dazzling terms. Artificial intelligence is software that seems intelligent. Virtual reality is a simulated environment that you can immerse yourself in through small screens and head tracking. Mixed reality is virtual reality overlayed on your real environment. See also "augmented reality". The metaverse is the web, but replace websites with 3d environments and add some sort of personal avatar, perhaps with some persistent identity.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- richgreeko222 2y ago
  [dead]
- woopsn 2y ago
  People seem to think I have trouble understanding what the terms refer to. That's not my point -- you're right in that they are not complex. But why is virtual reality associated with small screens and head tracking? Why wasn't Everquest on a CRT "virtual reality"? A lot of software calculates probabilities over some distribution, why isn't all that "artificial intelligence"? Why isn't my Subaru's cruise control and lane keeping technology "autopilot" or "self driving"? Why isn't the elevator controller an "agent"? Why aren't my own servers "clouds"? I don't need the terminology explained, I'm just tired of it. And I do think in many cases it's meant to be dazzling and marketable rather than mean anything.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    These terms have a way of burning people out. I hesitate to use blockchain and A.I. in the same sentence because that's a sure sign the person doesn't have anything to say.
  - andygeorge 2y ago
    > why is virtual reality associated with small screens and head tracking? ...because that's what it is? surely you understand that the difference between 3D, near-eye displays and traditional 2D screens warrants a different label
  - johnfn 2y ago
    > But why is virtual reality associated with small screens and head tracking? Because this improves the quality of VR. > Why wasn't Everquest on a CRT "virtual reality"? It is an extremely limited form of VR. > why isn't all that "artificial intelligence"? It is an extremely limited form of AI. > Why isn't my Subaru's cruise control and lane keeping technology "autopilot" or "self driving"? It is an extremely limited form of "self driving". (To be more precise, it's Level 1 self autonomy.) > Why isn't the elevator controller an "agent" It is an extremely limited form of an agent. > Why aren't my own servers "clouds"? They are extremely limited forms of a cloud. (Though I would argue that a cloud needs to be provided by a third party.) > I don't need the terminology explained, I'm just tired of it. It sounds like you are refusing to understand how experiences fall somewhere on a spectrum. Is me and my friend tossing a ball around in my backyard "baseball"? What if we get 7 more friends and stand on a diamond and run around the bases? If I come back afterwards and say "we played baseball", even though it wasn't an MLB-regulated official game adjudicated by umpires, are you going to get really upset at me and say that I'm lying and I didn't really play "baseball"? The same principle applies to everything else you've listed here.
LZ_Khan 2y ago
I think "mixed reality" is the marketing term for augmented reality. Easier to understand for some people.
- creativenolo 2y ago
  Typically “mixed reality” is used to mean mixing your vision with virtual content. Whereas, “augmented reality” has typically meant displaying a live video feed on a single screen. They are two quite different experiences and use cases. Once both are common it would make sense to call both augmented reality but I haven’t heard any better terms for describing the difference to people yet.
  - idle_zealot 2y ago
    I think usage is exactly the opposite of what you described.
    - creativenolo 2y ago
      I haven’t yet seen a phone Augmented Reality app described as Mixed Reality. I have seen HoloLens, Meta Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro described as Mixed Reality and Augmented Reality.
  - woopsn 2y ago
    "Mixed" versus "augmented" reality have no real meaning, which is why there is confusion about which of the two modalities you're referring to. My question is why avoid the terms overlay, superposition, display and even vision? Why instead purport to have altered reality? Traditionally in aviation and the military they said "heads up display", because they can't afford to be obtuse. The display allows the pilot literally to keep their head up, instead of pointed down at their instruments. And I'm sure there was no truck for anyone who would have called it mixed or augmented reality.
    - BlueFalconHD 2y ago
      x mixed with y = join any combination of x and y based on some condition within x and y x augmented by y = change part of x by adding y x = real world y = virtual world
baby 2y ago
The Metaverse is what the Internet is if you add VR. It’s not hard to understand.
- creativenolo 2y ago
  It can also mean just plain olde 2D 3D (according to companies selling metaverse services)
- woopsn 2y ago
  I understand. I read Snow Crash. Besides the Metaverse there was also a nuclear powered dog. My point is this -- by allusion to some concept with which an inventor wishes to form an association in the consumer's mind, their products are to be thought of as something different than they are, something too grand for plain language. This doesn't serve anyone but the inventor. The "Internet with head-mounted display" is actually pretty cool technology, I'm not against it. My concern is that it shouldn't be sold or even referred to as an alternate form of reality. For the benefit of product sales, or else the egos of certain technologists, language becomes muddied and the very idea about what makes someone "a person" is bastardized. I think this is wrong and very short sighted.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    If you use a term like "Virtual Reality" to describe things it eventually just becomes what people describe. Everybody knows what a VR headset is now. Everyone knows what VR is now. That is VR. The allusion is completely gone. It's like describing snow to someone who has never seen it. No matter what they allusions they have about snow before they see it, once they've seen it, they know that is snow. And everyone they talk to will have the same meaning. Same with Augmented reality, mixed reality, whatever. Once it becomes mainstream one of these terms will stick and that's just what it will be. Or it'll be so ingrained in the experience that we no longer even use a separate term to describe it.
  - baby 2y ago
    What is your experience with VR? Have you been to the movies in VR? Or played board games with other players? Have you done social chat applications?
wvenable 2y ago
What the hell is "cloud computing"? What is "big data"? What is the "Internet of Things" or "SaaS" or "SEO"? For that matter what is "agile development"? Just use words to describe technology? Every time I want to say "cloud computing" do I have to say "a service where you use the internet to access software, storage, and processing power that's run on a bunch of server located far away in data center that are owned and managed by a company that specializes in providing these services" instead?
- woopsn 2y ago
  In business you would traditionally call that sort of arrangement "outsourcing". The Internet of Things is okay -- it could have been worse, The Omninet or something.
  - wvenable 2y ago
    "outsourcing" is a broad term. Building your widgets in China is also outsourcing.
    - woopsn 2y ago
      That's the point though. Manufacturing, logistics, payroll, research, advertising, legal services, ... -- outsourcing certain functions to specialist, often (but not always) cheaper or more efficient companies is a typical business practice. The term is broadly applicable and used where ever this is the case. Since there are well-known business and organizational risks associated with outsourcing, it is conspicuous that we "migrate to the cloud" instead.
      - wvenable 2y ago
        Migrate to the cloud has specific meanings. How would you even adequately define it using "outsourcing"? That's just one part of it.
        woopsn 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by woopsn 2y ago

neverokay 2y ago

We are like gamers that no longer perceive the improvement in graphics across generations. Talk to Siri and then talk to ChatGPT if you are feeling that clueless.

woopsn 2y ago
I do. I've said it before too -- I like that they called it a "generative pretrained transformer" aka GPT.
- neverokay 2y ago
  You can make gpt be an imaginary friend for children if you want to. The technology is the technology, the application of it is the magic.

HL33tibCe7 2y ago

Meta are trying to dazzle you with words because there is nothing fundamental behind any of this metaverse stuff

idle_zealot 2y ago

These are not complex or dazzling terms. Artificial intelligence is software that seems intelligent. Virtual reality is a simulated environment that you can immerse yourself in through small screens and head tracking. Mixed reality is virtual reality overlayed on your real environment. See also "augmented reality". The metaverse is the web, but replace websites with 3d environments and add some sort of personal avatar, perhaps with some persistent identity.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
richgreeko222 2y ago
[dead]
woopsn 2y ago
People seem to think I have trouble understanding what the terms refer to. That's not my point -- you're right in that they are not complex. But why is virtual reality associated with small screens and head tracking? Why wasn't Everquest on a CRT "virtual reality"? A lot of software calculates probabilities over some distribution, why isn't all that "artificial intelligence"? Why isn't my Subaru's cruise control and lane keeping technology "autopilot" or "self driving"? Why isn't the elevator controller an "agent"? Why aren't my own servers "clouds"? I don't need the terminology explained, I'm just tired of it. And I do think in many cases it's meant to be dazzling and marketable rather than mean anything.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  These terms have a way of burning people out. I hesitate to use blockchain and A.I. in the same sentence because that's a sure sign the person doesn't have anything to say.
- andygeorge 2y ago
  > why is virtual reality associated with small screens and head tracking? ...because that's what it is? surely you understand that the difference between 3D, near-eye displays and traditional 2D screens warrants a different label
- johnfn 2y ago
  > But why is virtual reality associated with small screens and head tracking? Because this improves the quality of VR. > Why wasn't Everquest on a CRT "virtual reality"? It is an extremely limited form of VR. > why isn't all that "artificial intelligence"? It is an extremely limited form of AI. > Why isn't my Subaru's cruise control and lane keeping technology "autopilot" or "self driving"? It is an extremely limited form of "self driving". (To be more precise, it's Level 1 self autonomy.) > Why isn't the elevator controller an "agent" It is an extremely limited form of an agent. > Why aren't my own servers "clouds"? They are extremely limited forms of a cloud. (Though I would argue that a cloud needs to be provided by a third party.) > I don't need the terminology explained, I'm just tired of it. It sounds like you are refusing to understand how experiences fall somewhere on a spectrum. Is me and my friend tossing a ball around in my backyard "baseball"? What if we get 7 more friends and stand on a diamond and run around the bases? If I come back afterwards and say "we played baseball", even though it wasn't an MLB-regulated official game adjudicated by umpires, are you going to get really upset at me and say that I'm lying and I didn't really play "baseball"? The same principle applies to everything else you've listed here.

LZ_Khan 2y ago

I think "mixed reality" is the marketing term for augmented reality. Easier to understand for some people.

creativenolo 2y ago
Typically “mixed reality” is used to mean mixing your vision with virtual content. Whereas, “augmented reality” has typically meant displaying a live video feed on a single screen. They are two quite different experiences and use cases. Once both are common it would make sense to call both augmented reality but I haven’t heard any better terms for describing the difference to people yet.
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  I think usage is exactly the opposite of what you described.
  - creativenolo 2y ago
    I haven’t yet seen a phone Augmented Reality app described as Mixed Reality. I have seen HoloLens, Meta Quest 3 and Apple Vision Pro described as Mixed Reality and Augmented Reality.
- woopsn 2y ago
  "Mixed" versus "augmented" reality have no real meaning, which is why there is confusion about which of the two modalities you're referring to. My question is why avoid the terms overlay, superposition, display and even vision? Why instead purport to have altered reality? Traditionally in aviation and the military they said "heads up display", because they can't afford to be obtuse. The display allows the pilot literally to keep their head up, instead of pointed down at their instruments. And I'm sure there was no truck for anyone who would have called it mixed or augmented reality.
  - BlueFalconHD 2y ago
    x mixed with y = join any combination of x and y based on some condition within x and y x augmented by y = change part of x by adding y x = real world y = virtual world

baby 2y ago

The Metaverse is what the Internet is if you add VR. It’s not hard to understand.

creativenolo 2y ago
It can also mean just plain olde 2D 3D (according to companies selling metaverse services)
woopsn 2y ago
I understand. I read Snow Crash. Besides the Metaverse there was also a nuclear powered dog. My point is this -- by allusion to some concept with which an inventor wishes to form an association in the consumer's mind, their products are to be thought of as something different than they are, something too grand for plain language. This doesn't serve anyone but the inventor. The "Internet with head-mounted display" is actually pretty cool technology, I'm not against it. My concern is that it shouldn't be sold or even referred to as an alternate form of reality. For the benefit of product sales, or else the egos of certain technologists, language becomes muddied and the very idea about what makes someone "a person" is bastardized. I think this is wrong and very short sighted.
- wvenable 2y ago
  If you use a term like "Virtual Reality" to describe things it eventually just becomes what people describe. Everybody knows what a VR headset is now. Everyone knows what VR is now. That is VR. The allusion is completely gone. It's like describing snow to someone who has never seen it. No matter what they allusions they have about snow before they see it, once they've seen it, they know that is snow. And everyone they talk to will have the same meaning. Same with Augmented reality, mixed reality, whatever. Once it becomes mainstream one of these terms will stick and that's just what it will be. Or it'll be so ingrained in the experience that we no longer even use a separate term to describe it.
- baby 2y ago
  What is your experience with VR? Have you been to the movies in VR? Or played board games with other players? Have you done social chat applications?

wvenable 2y ago

What the hell is "cloud computing"? What is "big data"? What is the "Internet of Things" or "SaaS" or "SEO"? For that matter what is "agile development"? Just use words to describe technology? Every time I want to say "cloud computing" do I have to say "a service where you use the internet to access software, storage, and processing power that's run on a bunch of server located far away in data center that are owned and managed by a company that specializes in providing these services" instead?

woopsn 2y ago
In business you would traditionally call that sort of arrangement "outsourcing". The Internet of Things is okay -- it could have been worse, The Omninet or something.
- wvenable 2y ago
  "outsourcing" is a broad term. Building your widgets in China is also outsourcing.
  - woopsn 2y ago
    That's the point though. Manufacturing, logistics, payroll, research, advertising, legal services, ... -- outsourcing certain functions to specialist, often (but not always) cheaper or more efficient companies is a typical business practice. The term is broadly applicable and used where ever this is the case. Since there are well-known business and organizational risks associated with outsourcing, it is conspicuous that we "migrate to the cloud" instead.
    - wvenable 2y ago
      Migrate to the cloud has specific meanings. How would you even adequately define it using "outsourcing"? That's just one part of it.
      - woopsn 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]