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Today one of the biggest Spanish cava producers (Catalan equivalent of champagne) announced a massive layoff because of the droughts. It is definitely getting

Today one of the biggest Spanish cava producers (Catalan equivalent of champagne) announced a massive layoff because of the droughts. It is definitely getting hot close to the Mediterranean Sea and appears to be manifesting practical consequences.

dandellion 2y ago
I'm from the area. Grape varieties are shifting north and it's getting increasingly hard to get good production. That's pretty much the most recurrent comment these days about cava/wine production around here.
outside1234 2y ago
We are seeing the same in Santa Cruz here in the California. Grapes that before would have been impossible to grow here are now possible.
pvaldes 2y ago
This looks like an excuse, frankly. Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff.
- melenaboija 2y ago
  > Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. Grapes cannot resist any weather conditions, obviously. Otherwise there would be grapes growing anywhere in the planet [1] > I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff. Which ones you think and why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? [2] [1] https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-climate.html https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-clim... [2] https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583/04/24/freixenet-presenta-un-erte-para-600-personas-por-la-sequia-.html https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583...
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    > why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? Not a single big company would follow that path. Bad results scare investors
- bryanrasmussen 2y ago
  Is it a joke? You said raisins so I sort of think it must be. If not a joke I guess I'm just going to have to assume you're wrong. Why? Wine is generally imported from very few regions in the world. If Grapes were so easy to grow to the quality required to make good wine (a subject which admittedly I know nothing about as I hate wine) then I suppose there would not be such a focus on these few regions and probably the grape harvest and wine making of those regions would mean pretty much nothing to their economies, but evidently they are very meaningful. If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. Aside from that though, to double check my assumptions I searched and evidently https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b/gregory_jones/posts/climate-grapes-and-wine https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b... which says Grapevines are grown in regions across the globe where temperatures during the growing season average 55-70°F (13-21°C; see below). These temperature limits are found mostly in the mid-latitude regions of the continents. I don't know much about the value of that particular web site, but pretty much all the other places I saw anything on the subject seemed to confirm, which would fall in line with my preconceptions that this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range in order for products made from it not to have become commodified.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    > If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. You guess wrong [1]. Check the concepts of offer-demand and markets. Most of the value of the bottle is just taxes. > this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range A very limited range indeed. This fruit is cultured in Russia, Australia, Portugal, USA, Germany, Italy and Chile. And is not cultured on many other countries because religious beliefs. Grapes can grow in a lot of places, but we aren't talking about that; We are talking about a particular Spanish area, and Spain grows vine in every place with weather capable to grow vine, from Galicia to Canary Islands. What grapes don't grow in Antarctic (they could grow perfectly [2]) is not related with the allegedly problems that one Catalonian vine maker claim to have. [1] Well, there is very cheap and good home-made vine available in some places so in that sense you are right). [2] Making vine in Antarctic is just anti-economic, but not technologically impossible. Would somebody agree to pay one billion dollars each bottle, we would have a crop of polar vine in a few years. This is for sure, grapes can be cultivated in a big pot
ornornor 2y ago
Look up maps showing areas that are at risk of deadly temperatures, droughts, floods, and other climate events for the country you live in… it’s concerning to put it mildly. Most governments have made these maps but they’re not always easy to find (or available to the rest of us at all). There are also much more detailed maps that a consultancy (moodys I think?) has for sale for hedge funds, insurers, and other speculators that are very in-depth. But they’re way too expensive for the rest of us to get.

dandellion 2y ago

I'm from the area. Grape varieties are shifting north and it's getting increasingly hard to get good production. That's pretty much the most recurrent comment these days about cava/wine production around here.

outside1234 2y ago

We are seeing the same in Santa Cruz here in the California. Grapes that before would have been impossible to grow here are now possible.

pvaldes 2y ago

This looks like an excuse, frankly. Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff.

melenaboija 2y ago
> Grapes stand perfectly drought and sunny conditions. The plant is famous for growing where no other crops would. Grapes cannot resist any weather conditions, obviously. Otherwise there would be grapes growing anywhere in the planet [1] > I wouldn't discard other raisins for that layoff. Which ones you think and why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? [2] [1] https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-climate.html https://phys.org/news/2021-09-uphill-spain-wine-growers-clim... [2] https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583/04/24/freixenet-presenta-un-erte-para-600-personas-por-la-sequia-.html https://www.eleconomista.es/retail-consumo/noticias/12780583...
- pvaldes 2y ago
  > why should they be distorting the reality when they could be applying the layoff only based on financial results? Not a single big company would follow that path. Bad results scare investors
bryanrasmussen 2y ago
Is it a joke? You said raisins so I sort of think it must be. If not a joke I guess I'm just going to have to assume you're wrong. Why? Wine is generally imported from very few regions in the world. If Grapes were so easy to grow to the quality required to make good wine (a subject which admittedly I know nothing about as I hate wine) then I suppose there would not be such a focus on these few regions and probably the grape harvest and wine making of those regions would mean pretty much nothing to their economies, but evidently they are very meaningful. If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. Aside from that though, to double check my assumptions I searched and evidently https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b/gregory_jones/posts/climate-grapes-and-wine https://www.guildsomm.com/public_content/features/articles/b... which says Grapevines are grown in regions across the globe where temperatures during the growing season average 55-70°F (13-21°C; see below). These temperature limits are found mostly in the mid-latitude regions of the continents. I don't know much about the value of that particular web site, but pretty much all the other places I saw anything on the subject seemed to confirm, which would fall in line with my preconceptions that this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range in order for products made from it not to have become commodified.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  > If grapes could grow everywhere with the required quality I guess good wine would be cheaper than soda. You guess wrong [1]. Check the concepts of offer-demand and markets. Most of the value of the bottle is just taxes. > this fruit must have a relatively limited growing range A very limited range indeed. This fruit is cultured in Russia, Australia, Portugal, USA, Germany, Italy and Chile. And is not cultured on many other countries because religious beliefs. Grapes can grow in a lot of places, but we aren't talking about that; We are talking about a particular Spanish area, and Spain grows vine in every place with weather capable to grow vine, from Galicia to Canary Islands. What grapes don't grow in Antarctic (they could grow perfectly [2]) is not related with the allegedly problems that one Catalonian vine maker claim to have. [1] Well, there is very cheap and good home-made vine available in some places so in that sense you are right). [2] Making vine in Antarctic is just anti-economic, but not technologically impossible. Would somebody agree to pay one billion dollars each bottle, we would have a crop of polar vine in a few years. This is for sure, grapes can be cultivated in a big pot

ornornor 2y ago

Look up maps showing areas that are at risk of deadly temperatures, droughts, floods, and other climate events for the country you live in… it’s concerning to put it mildly. Most governments have made these maps but they’re not always easy to find (or available to the rest of us at all). There are also much more detailed maps that a consultancy (moodys I think?) has for sale for hedge funds, insurers, and other speculators that are very in-depth. But they’re way too expensive for the rest of us to get.