6 ms·

"Open platform" my ass. I still have to jump through ridiculous hoops to mod BeatSaber (which is the only way to make it worth playing for more than a few minut

"Open platform" my ass. I still have to jump through ridiculous hoops to mod BeatSaber (which is the only way to make it worth playing for more than a few minutes). Quest 3 makes modding even harder. This announcement is trying to frame App Lab as an open app distribution platform; it isn't. Those "basic technical and content requirements" apps have to meet are basically the same ones that Apple or Google or Meta themselves enforce for their app stores. Entire classes of applications, particularly those that undermine platform-owners' business models are not allowed. Additionally, Horizon is generally a terrible operating system. Useless and intrusive "social" features out the wazoo, laden with tracking/spyware, and it isn't even good for anything beyond launching apps that take over the whole environment. Want to use your fancy headset to open up apps in 3d space and do some multitaking work? Well I sure hope you're happy with exactly 3 2d apps (all equally sized) lined up in a row in a fixed location, because that's all you're getting. If you want to do anything real you need to install an app that launches its own environment for multitasking, but of course then you can only pull in windows from a remote PC, so if you want to run any local applications it's back to basics for you. Oh, and of course you can't mix those remote PC windows with local apps. As poor as Apple's Vision OS is in the multitasking department Horizon falls far behind even it.

hackcasual 3y ago
Modded beat saber is the only reason I still have kept my original quest
- zem 3y ago
  I was half tempted to get a quest after playing beat saber on a friend's device. it's kind of amazing how much better it is than the next best thing you could do on one, some team just knocked it out of the park designing and implementing that game
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    Pistol whip is pretty good too. Those two get your light saber sword fight fantasy, and the Matrix Gun-Fu fantasy :) And though I haven't an athletic bone in my body, the fitness / boxing apps are actually a great way to get some exercise in. Generally, quest 2 was one of the things I haven't had any interest whatsoever until after a year's campaign, my friend basically forced me to try it during a visit :-). I have one now, largely for those 3 apps.
NBJack 3y ago
This is ultimately what they want: their owned walled garden, where they get to be the decider, hold the power, track the user's as first party data, etc. It makes perfect sense. They want this to be the next Android OS (with Play Store equivalent of course). This is really the only move that gets them back in (perhaps only somewhat) with the dwindling ads market. Much as I don't like it, it is a legitimate tactic. I just don't see it being effective in the current market, even with Apple as a player.
- znpy 3y ago
  > They want this to be the next Android OS (with Play Store equivalent of course). Or the next Apple with the next iOS ?
  - radlad 3y ago
    iOS can only run on Apple hardware. Google famously made Android "open source" and allows third party manufacturers to run it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- zooq_ai 3y ago
  Dwindling Ads market? Which planet do you live?
  - idontgetirony 3y ago
    [flagged]
- freedomben 3y ago
  If what they ultimately want is their own walled garden, then wouldn't opening things up be the opposite of what they should do? I mean, it's a lot harder to re-take control that you previously released than it is to hold onto it from the start. Look at Apple's difficulties tighteninng up control on the mac for example. It has to be a very long game. Compare that to the iPhone, iPad, vision OS that have been tightly controlled from the start and they have no difficulties (other than regulatory) holding the reins tightly.
bagels 3y ago
Why can't you play BeatSaber without mods?
- yuck39 3y ago
  The out of the box track selection is quite weak. The game depends on community made tracks to make it playable in the long term.
- munk-a 3y ago
  You can - it's just far less fun than BeatSaber with mods. The biggest improvement is from being able to select from the community list of songs that are available that may better suit your taste than the songs that come built in. It's a rhythm game so using a rhythm you like makes it much more fun.
  - jsheard 3y ago
    Besides song choice, the community also produces higher quality charts than the official ones, and offers difficulty that scales much higher. Lunatics like these can't be sated by the official songs: https://youtu.be/CKwX349aV98 https://youtu.be/CKwX349aV98 https://youtu.be/sJQSy3KG-oQ?t=33 https://youtu.be/sJQSy3KG-oQ?t=33 That first chart averages 12 notes per second for 5 straight minutes and the player only missed a single note.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Scaling even higher?? Lol I can't even play on medium difficulty on the built-in ones. I don't know how people keep up with the high tracks.
      - munk-a 3y ago
        I assume there are sort of natural skill ceilings but if you practice with more difficult scenarios and really push yourself you'd be amazed at what you can do. I've got an essential tremor[1] and I usually play on Expert+ for the vanilla tracks which is usually do-able for me. 1. On that note - my tremor does hurt me here too but unlike twitch shooters (which I loved before my tremor got bad) and things like guitar hero (which require comparatively precise movement) beat saber is usually pretty forgiving about precision of placement and angles - so long as your rhythm is correct you can go pretty far with it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kotaKat 3y ago
And I'm still forced to have some form or variant of a Facebook-touched account, even if they want to change the front company behind it. I don't want to sign in to use a headset, period.
- prab97 3y ago
  But you do sign in to use an Android phone, or iPhone. Although, I agree with the point that someone would never want to sign in with their Facebook account there, with FB account holding so much personal information about them! For gaming, somebody would rather prefer to use an alias like dungeonmaster669 instead of their verified actual identity.
  - rrdharan 3y ago
    You don’t have to sign in to use an iPhone or Android phone, though you to have to sign in to use their app stores. Presumably with the advent of DMA though you can avoid creating an Apple ID or Google account if using a 3rd party store (though probably you’ll need some other account for that store, that’s how it always goes…). Fe: gaming - yes, this is why Apple had separate IDs for gaming center.. and I think Microsoft does this too for Xbox vs Microsoft account?
  - wredue 3y ago
    I also basically have to have a smartphone, and smartphones are entirely self contained devices. On a scale of trust for how companies are handling my data, Apple, and to a much lesser extent, Google, are still more trustworthy than Facebook, I feel.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    On Android at least, you don't have to sign in. You obviously "miss out" on some "features" that way, but it is usable.
fijiaarone 3y ago
Plus, it doesn’t have the Apple logo.
gnarbarian 3y ago
Hey, at least it supports webXR and there's no way to control that content.
cma 3y ago
They mention Steam Link but don't mention it isn't allowed to sell in-app purchases (maybe a decision on Steam's side to be fair; they dont want games on Steam themselves having a "remote desktop" overlay workaround where you buy DLC without paying the 30% revenue tax).
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
bodge5000 3y ago
> I sure hope you're happy with exactly 3 2d apps (all equally sized) lined up in a row in a fixed location, because that's all you're getting. To be fair that is all I really want. Regardless, its still a privacy nightmare which makes it a no-go for me, combined with the fact that the most powerful ("productivity") app I can expect to run on it would be something like excel which makes me not really need anymore than 1 window, at which point its no better than a regular laptop. I'm waiting for the Simula One, or maybe XReal Air support for linux EDIT: To be clear, the kind of apps I'd want to be running (what I run on my regular laptop) that I doubt would be available on Meta OS include things like: Godot, Blender, VSCode, terminal windows, probably a bunch of other stuff but those are the main ones

hackcasual 3y ago

Modded beat saber is the only reason I still have kept my original quest

zem 3y ago
I was half tempted to get a quest after playing beat saber on a friend's device. it's kind of amazing how much better it is than the next best thing you could do on one, some team just knocked it out of the park designing and implementing that game
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Pistol whip is pretty good too. Those two get your light saber sword fight fantasy, and the Matrix Gun-Fu fantasy :) And though I haven't an athletic bone in my body, the fitness / boxing apps are actually a great way to get some exercise in. Generally, quest 2 was one of the things I haven't had any interest whatsoever until after a year's campaign, my friend basically forced me to try it during a visit :-). I have one now, largely for those 3 apps.

NBJack 3y ago

This is ultimately what they want: their owned walled garden, where they get to be the decider, hold the power, track the user's as first party data, etc. It makes perfect sense. They want this to be the next Android OS (with Play Store equivalent of course). This is really the only move that gets them back in (perhaps only somewhat) with the dwindling ads market. Much as I don't like it, it is a legitimate tactic. I just don't see it being effective in the current market, even with Apple as a player.

znpy 3y ago
> They want this to be the next Android OS (with Play Store equivalent of course). Or the next Apple with the next iOS ?
- radlad 3y ago
  iOS can only run on Apple hardware. Google famously made Android "open source" and allows third party manufacturers to run it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zooq_ai 3y ago
Dwindling Ads market? Which planet do you live?
- idontgetirony 3y ago
  [flagged]
freedomben 3y ago
If what they ultimately want is their own walled garden, then wouldn't opening things up be the opposite of what they should do? I mean, it's a lot harder to re-take control that you previously released than it is to hold onto it from the start. Look at Apple's difficulties tighteninng up control on the mac for example. It has to be a very long game. Compare that to the iPhone, iPad, vision OS that have been tightly controlled from the start and they have no difficulties (other than regulatory) holding the reins tightly.

bagels 3y ago

Why can't you play BeatSaber without mods?

yuck39 3y ago
The out of the box track selection is quite weak. The game depends on community made tracks to make it playable in the long term.
munk-a 3y ago
You can - it's just far less fun than BeatSaber with mods. The biggest improvement is from being able to select from the community list of songs that are available that may better suit your taste than the songs that come built in. It's a rhythm game so using a rhythm you like makes it much more fun.
- jsheard 3y ago
  Besides song choice, the community also produces higher quality charts than the official ones, and offers difficulty that scales much higher. Lunatics like these can't be sated by the official songs: https://youtu.be/CKwX349aV98 https://youtu.be/CKwX349aV98 https://youtu.be/sJQSy3KG-oQ?t=33 https://youtu.be/sJQSy3KG-oQ?t=33 That first chart averages 12 notes per second for 5 straight minutes and the player only missed a single note.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Scaling even higher?? Lol I can't even play on medium difficulty on the built-in ones. I don't know how people keep up with the high tracks.
    - munk-a 3y ago
      I assume there are sort of natural skill ceilings but if you practice with more difficult scenarios and really push yourself you'd be amazed at what you can do. I've got an essential tremor[1] and I usually play on Expert+ for the vanilla tracks which is usually do-able for me. 1. On that note - my tremor does hurt me here too but unlike twitch shooters (which I loved before my tremor got bad) and things like guitar hero (which require comparatively precise movement) beat saber is usually pretty forgiving about precision of placement and angles - so long as your rhythm is correct you can go pretty far with it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kotaKat 3y ago

And I'm still forced to have some form or variant of a Facebook-touched account, even if they want to change the front company behind it. I don't want to sign in to use a headset, period.

prab97 3y ago
But you do sign in to use an Android phone, or iPhone. Although, I agree with the point that someone would never want to sign in with their Facebook account there, with FB account holding so much personal information about them! For gaming, somebody would rather prefer to use an alias like dungeonmaster669 instead of their verified actual identity.
- rrdharan 3y ago
  You don’t have to sign in to use an iPhone or Android phone, though you to have to sign in to use their app stores. Presumably with the advent of DMA though you can avoid creating an Apple ID or Google account if using a 3rd party store (though probably you’ll need some other account for that store, that’s how it always goes…). Fe: gaming - yes, this is why Apple had separate IDs for gaming center.. and I think Microsoft does this too for Xbox vs Microsoft account?
- wredue 3y ago
  I also basically have to have a smartphone, and smartphones are entirely self contained devices. On a scale of trust for how companies are handling my data, Apple, and to a much lesser extent, Google, are still more trustworthy than Facebook, I feel.
- freedomben 3y ago
  On Android at least, you don't have to sign in. You obviously "miss out" on some "features" that way, but it is usable.

fijiaarone 3y ago

Plus, it doesn’t have the Apple logo.

gnarbarian 3y ago

Hey, at least it supports webXR and there's no way to control that content.

cma 3y ago

They mention Steam Link but don't mention it isn't allowed to sell in-app purchases (maybe a decision on Steam's side to be fair; they dont want games on Steam themselves having a "remote desktop" overlay workaround where you buy DLC without paying the 30% revenue tax).

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

bodge5000 3y ago

> I sure hope you're happy with exactly 3 2d apps (all equally sized) lined up in a row in a fixed location, because that's all you're getting. To be fair that is all I really want. Regardless, its still a privacy nightmare which makes it a no-go for me, combined with the fact that the most powerful ("productivity") app I can expect to run on it would be something like excel which makes me not really need anymore than 1 window, at which point its no better than a regular laptop. I'm waiting for the Simula One, or maybe XReal Air support for linux EDIT: To be clear, the kind of apps I'd want to be running (what I run on my regular laptop) that I doubt would be available on Meta OS include things like: Godot, Blender, VSCode, terminal windows, probably a bunch of other stuff but those are the main ones