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And when it doesn't harken well move on to some other hyperbolic doomsday, this has literally been going on for thousands of years. Humans have constantly, hubr

by Guthur 2y ago

And when it doesn't harken well move on to some other hyperbolic doomsday, this has literally been going on for thousands of years. Humans have constantly, hubristically , predicting the end of the planet and humanity based on the existence of humanity for millennia. They are selling, always selling.

pfannkuchen 2y ago
Yeah the way it rhymes with an apocalypse cult is pretty interesting. (Not asserting that it is an apocalypse cult of course)
VelesDude 2y ago
There is a decent book on this called 'Apocalypse Not' by John Michael Greer that covers the history of all these end times predictions. Good thing for putting these kinds of claims in perspective. Yes, we have big issues facing us, some we can solve, some we can merely respond too. But we have to be mindful about some of the alarmist language that can be used. While many want to alarm people into action, it can also become fear that paralyze folks from doing any action.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  And he's also very critical about the "other side of the coin" : "business as usual, mankind to the stars" predictions. He's IMHO a bit too complacent about some of the now possible worst case scenarios : yes, the end of the current Ice Age (that Homo has evolved in) likely won't be the end of mankind, but when thinking about the Earth returning into a more normal state, you have to remember that it also involved periods where most of it was too hot for mammals to inhabit, that the Sun is slightly hotter now, and that a potential future Arctic & Antarctic jungles civilization will still kind of suck because it still involves months-long nights and days.
- exe34 2y ago
  > we have to be mindful about some of the alarmist language Exactly! It probably won't drive us to extinction - a mere few billions will starve/suffer from extreme weather events/die in miserable conditions. A fair price to pay for better returns for shareholders!
  - EnigmaFlare 2y ago
    Got a source for that? Billions starving sounds like part of the unscientific alarmism.
    - defrost 2y ago
      FWIW the UN FAO (Food and Agriculture) Climate change and food security: risks and responses report maps out multiple scenarios based on degrees of response to the various climate change possibilities. These include "billions" (ie > 2 billion) facing hunger, food insecurity and starvation to varying levels .. which is not hard to imagine given that the 2015 number for that was already 0.8 billion and the world population will be increasing until 2050 at least. I'll assume that those interested can find and read the report for themselves.
      - EnigmaFlare 2y ago
        Do you have a link? All links I can find are broken ones to the FAO's website which doesn't seem to have it. But even what you said doesn't mean billions will starve or die from miserable conditions. Maybe billions will have to put on a raincoat as they're "suffering" from more rain than usual. This is the problem with alarmism - exaggerated claims that aren't coming from science.
        defrost 2y ago
        FAO webmasters are shuffling papers (maybe) .. the link of first hit was good from 2020 until 6 days ago - it seems dead now. The meta data car landing page is there: https://climate-adapt.eea.europa.eu/en/metadata/publications/climate-change-and-food-security-risks-and-responses-1 https://climate-adapt.eea.europa.eu/en/metadata/publications... with a WARNING Website experience degraded The European Climate and Health Observatory is undergoing reconstruction until June 2024 to improve its performance. We apologise for any possible disturbance to the content and functionality of the platform. The link itself (active for ~3+ years) is dead (for now) http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5188e.pdf http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5188e.pdf Give them a day or so to migrate doc storage I guess. > But even what you said doesn't mean billions will starve or die from miserable conditions. You asked another user for a link, I found the premise interesting and found a well researched paper that includes billions experiencing starvation within the entire possible scenarios (action needs to be taken to avoid type paths into the future). > This is the problem with alarmism - exaggerated claims that aren't coming from science. Well, that's your position - I work in geophysical exploration for minerals and energy etc. and none of the IPCC statements within the climate reports seem wildly exagerated, they strictly layout scenarios based on current trends in resource usage and responses and parallel those that are a standard deviation or so above and below.

by Guthur 2y ago

pfannkuchen 2y ago

Yeah the way it rhymes with an apocalypse cult is pretty interesting. (Not asserting that it is an apocalypse cult of course)

VelesDude 2y ago

There is a decent book on this called 'Apocalypse Not' by John Michael Greer that covers the history of all these end times predictions. Good thing for putting these kinds of claims in perspective. Yes, we have big issues facing us, some we can solve, some we can merely respond too. But we have to be mindful about some of the alarmist language that can be used. While many want to alarm people into action, it can also become fear that paralyze folks from doing any action.

BlueTemplar 2y ago
And he's also very critical about the "other side of the coin" : "business as usual, mankind to the stars" predictions. He's IMHO a bit too complacent about some of the now possible worst case scenarios : yes, the end of the current Ice Age (that Homo has evolved in) likely won't be the end of mankind, but when thinking about the Earth returning into a more normal state, you have to remember that it also involved periods where most of it was too hot for mammals to inhabit, that the Sun is slightly hotter now, and that a potential future Arctic & Antarctic jungles civilization will still kind of suck because it still involves months-long nights and days.
exe34 2y ago
> we have to be mindful about some of the alarmist language Exactly! It probably won't drive us to extinction - a mere few billions will starve/suffer from extreme weather events/die in miserable conditions. A fair price to pay for better returns for shareholders!
- EnigmaFlare 2y ago
  Got a source for that? Billions starving sounds like part of the unscientific alarmism.
  - defrost 2y ago
    FWIW the UN FAO (Food and Agriculture) Climate change and food security: risks and responses report maps out multiple scenarios based on degrees of response to the various climate change possibilities. These include "billions" (ie > 2 billion) facing hunger, food insecurity and starvation to varying levels .. which is not hard to imagine given that the 2015 number for that was already 0.8 billion and the world population will be increasing until 2050 at least. I'll assume that those interested can find and read the report for themselves.
    - EnigmaFlare 2y ago
      Do you have a link? All links I can find are broken ones to the FAO's website which doesn't seem to have it. But even what you said doesn't mean billions will starve or die from miserable conditions. Maybe billions will have to put on a raincoat as they're "suffering" from more rain than usual. This is the problem with alarmism - exaggerated claims that aren't coming from science.
      - defrost 2y ago
        FAO webmasters are shuffling papers (maybe) .. the link of first hit was good from 2020 until 6 days ago - it seems dead now. The meta data car landing page is there: https://climate-adapt.eea.europa.eu/en/metadata/publications/climate-change-and-food-security-risks-and-responses-1 https://climate-adapt.eea.europa.eu/en/metadata/publications... with a WARNING Website experience degraded The European Climate and Health Observatory is undergoing reconstruction until June 2024 to improve its performance. We apologise for any possible disturbance to the content and functionality of the platform. The link itself (active for ~3+ years) is dead (for now) http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5188e.pdf http://www.fao.org/3/a-i5188e.pdf Give them a day or so to migrate doc storage I guess. > But even what you said doesn't mean billions will starve or die from miserable conditions. You asked another user for a link, I found the premise interesting and found a well researched paper that includes billions experiencing starvation within the entire possible scenarios (action needs to be taken to avoid type paths into the future). > This is the problem with alarmism - exaggerated claims that aren't coming from science. Well, that's your position - I work in geophysical exploration for minerals and energy etc. and none of the IPCC statements within the climate reports seem wildly exagerated, they strictly layout scenarios based on current trends in resource usage and responses and parallel those that are a standard deviation or so above and below.