4 ms·

I do not look down upon Chinese society, or their technological achievements. Even making a derivative chip is a achievement in itself. However by all analysis

I do not look down upon Chinese society, or their technological achievements. Even making a derivative chip is a achievement in itself. However by all analysis, the chip is a derivative of TSMC technology. If TSMC and SMIC are not collaborating, then Occam's Razor leads us to the tech/process being stolen.

Dalewyn 3y ago
Bluntly frankly, it really doesn't matter how or why China has 7nm process nodes. What matters is they do, and that arguably makes them superior to Intel and thusly the USA; remember that Intel 7 is 10nm, for whatever value "nm" still holds. This fact should fucking terrify all Americans, and indeed the west at large.
- BobbyJo 3y ago
  They very likely spent 6 years copying another company, and we able to produce a technology 1 year after Intel. Clearly superior.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Well, China's pumping out 7nm silicon by themselves now, en masse, and selling them for top yuans. Another guy here mentioned they're on par performance wise to Qualcomm's Snapdragon 888 line, that's fucking crazy, fucking impressive, and fucking terrifying. Intel barely has Intel 4 (7nm) stumbling out the door on a wheelchair with square wheels if Meteor Lake has been anything to go by, their foundry business is bleeding out red ink, and they're even dependent on TSMC now: They aren't self sufficient anymore. You tell me which is superior, because if you ask me it's not the blue guy whose name starts with I, and by extension it's not the guy in red/white/blue whose name starts with U.
    - BobbyJo 3y ago
      Agree to disagree then :)
- xwolfi 3y ago
  Terrify ? I'm French and live in China: nobody in France is terrified by the US or China being better at chips. We're better at other things and import chips by giving them euros, and the fools take the trade, so we continue. And in China, frankly, we have so much needs internally, it's more to power our own crap than to send weapons, or overpower foreign markets. We barely speak English and the americans don't take much Yuans, so their stuff is expensive :( Be less terrified, and maybe contribute more than just patent rents? It's ok to compete, we're not gonna be at war. Or if we are, we are so corrupt that we put water in the fuel tanks of our missiles: you have nothing to fear.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    It's terrifying because these things are all signs that the era of Pax Americana is coming to a close, likely more swiftly than any of us realize, to be succeeded by the era of Pax Sino. I for one overall enjoy(ed?) the Pax Americana state of affairs, but Pax Americana exists on the premise of absolute economical and technological superiority against would-be challengers. We are well on our way to lose our economical superiority this century, and we already lost our technological superiority; our military superiority will also vanish once we lose both of the aforementioned, too. Pax Sino will be nowhere as comfortable or prosperous an era (for westerners!) to live in. That is why this is terrifying.
    - John23832 3y ago
      Pax-Sino will not be a thing. Pax-Americana existed because of two qualities that America has, but China does not. 1) America has a very unique interest in the foreign affairs of others. So much so that America is "hated" for it, and America has built a global navy to enforce its interests. China, both historically and currently, is hands off to the affairs of others if they do not represent a direct Chinese interest. 2) Foreign entities joined in on Pax-Americanan economic system (capitalism) because it made them rich as well, just not as rich as America. China themselves joined in and benefited. However, there is no part of the Chinese economic system that is interested in making others rich. They take an opposing approach, they give others the tools to keep power (through surveillance). (America gives countries the power to keep power as well through military sales, but the major factor is economic, not military).
deleted 3y ago
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Dalewyn 3y ago

Bluntly frankly, it really doesn't matter how or why China has 7nm process nodes. What matters is they do, and that arguably makes them superior to Intel and thusly the USA; remember that Intel 7 is 10nm, for whatever value "nm" still holds. This fact should fucking terrify all Americans, and indeed the west at large.

BobbyJo 3y ago
They very likely spent 6 years copying another company, and we able to produce a technology 1 year after Intel. Clearly superior.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Well, China's pumping out 7nm silicon by themselves now, en masse, and selling them for top yuans. Another guy here mentioned they're on par performance wise to Qualcomm's Snapdragon 888 line, that's fucking crazy, fucking impressive, and fucking terrifying. Intel barely has Intel 4 (7nm) stumbling out the door on a wheelchair with square wheels if Meteor Lake has been anything to go by, their foundry business is bleeding out red ink, and they're even dependent on TSMC now: They aren't self sufficient anymore. You tell me which is superior, because if you ask me it's not the blue guy whose name starts with I, and by extension it's not the guy in red/white/blue whose name starts with U.
  - BobbyJo 3y ago
    Agree to disagree then :)
xwolfi 3y ago
Terrify ? I'm French and live in China: nobody in France is terrified by the US or China being better at chips. We're better at other things and import chips by giving them euros, and the fools take the trade, so we continue. And in China, frankly, we have so much needs internally, it's more to power our own crap than to send weapons, or overpower foreign markets. We barely speak English and the americans don't take much Yuans, so their stuff is expensive :( Be less terrified, and maybe contribute more than just patent rents? It's ok to compete, we're not gonna be at war. Or if we are, we are so corrupt that we put water in the fuel tanks of our missiles: you have nothing to fear.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  It's terrifying because these things are all signs that the era of Pax Americana is coming to a close, likely more swiftly than any of us realize, to be succeeded by the era of Pax Sino. I for one overall enjoy(ed?) the Pax Americana state of affairs, but Pax Americana exists on the premise of absolute economical and technological superiority against would-be challengers. We are well on our way to lose our economical superiority this century, and we already lost our technological superiority; our military superiority will also vanish once we lose both of the aforementioned, too. Pax Sino will be nowhere as comfortable or prosperous an era (for westerners!) to live in. That is why this is terrifying.
  - John23832 3y ago
    Pax-Sino will not be a thing. Pax-Americana existed because of two qualities that America has, but China does not. 1) America has a very unique interest in the foreign affairs of others. So much so that America is "hated" for it, and America has built a global navy to enforce its interests. China, both historically and currently, is hands off to the affairs of others if they do not represent a direct Chinese interest. 2) Foreign entities joined in on Pax-Americanan economic system (capitalism) because it made them rich as well, just not as rich as America. China themselves joined in and benefited. However, there is no part of the Chinese economic system that is interested in making others rich. They take an opposing approach, they give others the tools to keep power (through surveillance). (America gives countries the power to keep power as well through military sales, but the major factor is economic, not military).

deleted 3y ago

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