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>> although that may reflect more on my skills/level as a developer than anything else Nah, that reflects on the U.K. - developers are generally miserably unde

>> although that may reflect more on my skills/level as a developer than anything else Nah, that reflects on the U.K. - developers are generally miserably underpaid, and there’s a massive shortage of freight drivers since Brexit for no apparent reason whatsoever.

bmoxb 3y ago
> there’s a massive shortage of freight drivers since Brexit for no apparent reason whatsoever. The main reason is that most drivers were Eastern European and since freedom of movement ended it has become significantly harder for them to come and work as freely as they could before. Covid is also a factor afaik. Though I otherwise agree with you that developers (or rather white collar careers in general with the exception of certain finance roles) are not particularly well paid in many instances in the UK.
- IntelMiner 3y ago
  I believe the users comment was deeply sarcastic and they are in underlying agreement with your assertion
  - bmoxb 3y ago
    I think you're right - I'm embarassed to have not picked up on that.
dukeyukey 3y ago
Worth pointing out that among non-US countries, the UK has among the highest developer pay. This isn't the UK under-paying, it's the US being a massive outlier.
- User23 3y ago
  Truck drivers in the USA can easily make well into the six figures as owner operators. It’s not gonna compete with FAANG (except maybe on oilfields?), but it’s a very good living. And of course if you’re good at running yourself as a business you have the skills to run other drivers too if you choose to invest in a fleet. Heck, for a while Amazon was paying people to quit and start trucking.
kgf1980 3y ago
Surpringly the shortage of drivers is not actually a thing anymore (during Covid perhaps) but the large number of people who got their HGV license when the government changed the rules during Covid has actually caused pay rates to drastically fall due to their being more drivers looking for work than work available.
- rsynnott 3y ago
  I think that's maybe not _that_ surprising, because freight in _general_ in the UK is in decline. The UK Dept of Transport does not expect freight tonnage to rise to 2019 levels in the foreseeable future. This is partially due to the decline of the land bridge (since Brexit, far more freight to Ireland goes by sea instead of through the UK), but also due to a decline in UK trade in general post-Brexit.
  - ta1243 3y ago
    A decline in the UK in general post-Brexit, although brexit is more of a symptom of a larger decline.
jokethrowaway 3y ago
OP salary at 38k is pretty low. From my experience that's in line with people doing "body rentals" for agencies under threat of being deported or because they couldn't find another job. I think he could have doubled that with a bit of work on resume / negotiation skills. Sure, still lower than US but life in the UK is way cheaper, so it works out unless your earning potential is mid-high 3 digits.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  I'm not sure it's specific to body shops. Frankly some higher-end "body shops" (aka agencies) do actually pay quite well. This salary sadly seems normal for a non-tech business. > life in the UK is way cheaper Nowadays I'm not sure, especially if you actually need any of the services the government is supposed to provide but is no longer able to (healthcare, etc). Private healthcare expenses quickly adds up.
deleted 3y ago
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bmoxb 3y ago

> there’s a massive shortage of freight drivers since Brexit for no apparent reason whatsoever. The main reason is that most drivers were Eastern European and since freedom of movement ended it has become significantly harder for them to come and work as freely as they could before. Covid is also a factor afaik. Though I otherwise agree with you that developers (or rather white collar careers in general with the exception of certain finance roles) are not particularly well paid in many instances in the UK.

IntelMiner 3y ago
I believe the users comment was deeply sarcastic and they are in underlying agreement with your assertion
- bmoxb 3y ago
  I think you're right - I'm embarassed to have not picked up on that.

dukeyukey 3y ago

Worth pointing out that among non-US countries, the UK has among the highest developer pay. This isn't the UK under-paying, it's the US being a massive outlier.

User23 3y ago
Truck drivers in the USA can easily make well into the six figures as owner operators. It’s not gonna compete with FAANG (except maybe on oilfields?), but it’s a very good living. And of course if you’re good at running yourself as a business you have the skills to run other drivers too if you choose to invest in a fleet. Heck, for a while Amazon was paying people to quit and start trucking.

kgf1980 3y ago

Surpringly the shortage of drivers is not actually a thing anymore (during Covid perhaps) but the large number of people who got their HGV license when the government changed the rules during Covid has actually caused pay rates to drastically fall due to their being more drivers looking for work than work available.

rsynnott 3y ago
I think that's maybe not _that_ surprising, because freight in _general_ in the UK is in decline. The UK Dept of Transport does not expect freight tonnage to rise to 2019 levels in the foreseeable future. This is partially due to the decline of the land bridge (since Brexit, far more freight to Ireland goes by sea instead of through the UK), but also due to a decline in UK trade in general post-Brexit.
- ta1243 3y ago
  A decline in the UK in general post-Brexit, although brexit is more of a symptom of a larger decline.

jokethrowaway 3y ago

OP salary at 38k is pretty low. From my experience that's in line with people doing "body rentals" for agencies under threat of being deported or because they couldn't find another job. I think he could have doubled that with a bit of work on resume / negotiation skills. Sure, still lower than US but life in the UK is way cheaper, so it works out unless your earning potential is mid-high 3 digits.

Nextgrid 3y ago
I'm not sure it's specific to body shops. Frankly some higher-end "body shops" (aka agencies) do actually pay quite well. This salary sadly seems normal for a non-tech business. > life in the UK is way cheaper Nowadays I'm not sure, especially if you actually need any of the services the government is supposed to provide but is no longer able to (healthcare, etc). Private healthcare expenses quickly adds up.

deleted 3y ago

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