3 ms·

Is this the world you wish to live in? Where the greatest concern is not for the provisioning of housing for all but instead the punishment of those who have no

Is this the world you wish to live in? Where the greatest concern is not for the provisioning of housing for all but instead the punishment of those who have no other options available?

lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
Is this the world you wish to live in? https://archive.is/H6GVE https://archive.is/H6GVE
- PheonixPharts 2y ago
  Nobody wants to live in that world, including the homeless people in that picture. But the homeless populations are symptoms of larger problem in the society. Simply making homelessness illegal is a far worse world. Those people in the picture will still exist, they'll just be contained in a prison. If, through some unexpected hardship, you found yourself without a home would you consider yourself a criminal worthy of punishment? Or do you consider the fact that you have housing some moral choice you are making in the same way you choose not to steal? The fundamental argument being debated is: if you don't want homeless people in your public space, you need to give them some other option if you are going to force them out of those spaces.
  - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
    There is no "but" here. Can you suggest a solution that hasn't been tried over and over again for the past 20 years (at least?) Your suggestions have resulted in more homelessness and worse conditions for the homeless.
    - diob 2y ago
      Not sure we can fix it here in the US. It's wild going to a place like Australia and seeing how differently the police and others treat homeless folks there, in short, with compassion. We're just obsessed with car culture, militarized police, and "individualism".
    - PheonixPharts 2y ago
      So can you be clear: you believe prison is a superior solution? Because that's the solution you are proposing. I just want you to say clearly that you believe homelessness is a crime and homeless populations should be housed in prisons. Btw this was also tried before in Industrial England, this is essentially what "debtors prisons" referenced in a Christmas Carol are.
      - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
        So you can be clear: have any of your "superior" solutions made the problem better or worse?
        PheonixPharts 2y ago
        Yes, per the case itself: cities are responsible for creating public spaces that where homelessness is allow. It can be shelters or spaces where tent cities are legally allowed. The case is not arguing that homeless people should be able to sleep anywhere, it's saying that if you don't provide a legal space for them to live, then you can't remove them from public spaces. Again if you don't believe homeless should have a place to exist, then you do believe they should be in prison? Can you just clarify this is what you mean.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Yes, absolutely. Good approaches exist! https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...
    - klyrs 2y ago
      The Harlem housing projects.
- sli 2y ago
  It is utterly ghoulish to try and convince people to hate other human beings simply because they're unfortunate.
  - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
    That's not what I'm doing.
HDThoreaun 2y ago
yes.

Is this the world you wish to live in? Where the greatest concern is not for the provisioning of housing for all but instead the punishment of those who have no other options available?

lylejantzi3rd 2y ago

Is this the world you wish to live in? https://archive.is/H6GVE https://archive.is/H6GVE

PheonixPharts 2y ago
Nobody wants to live in that world, including the homeless people in that picture. But the homeless populations are symptoms of larger problem in the society. Simply making homelessness illegal is a far worse world. Those people in the picture will still exist, they'll just be contained in a prison. If, through some unexpected hardship, you found yourself without a home would you consider yourself a criminal worthy of punishment? Or do you consider the fact that you have housing some moral choice you are making in the same way you choose not to steal? The fundamental argument being debated is: if you don't want homeless people in your public space, you need to give them some other option if you are going to force them out of those spaces.
- lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
  There is no "but" here. Can you suggest a solution that hasn't been tried over and over again for the past 20 years (at least?) Your suggestions have resulted in more homelessness and worse conditions for the homeless.
  - diob 2y ago
    Not sure we can fix it here in the US. It's wild going to a place like Australia and seeing how differently the police and others treat homeless folks there, in short, with compassion. We're just obsessed with car culture, militarized police, and "individualism".
  - PheonixPharts 2y ago
    So can you be clear: you believe prison is a superior solution? Because that's the solution you are proposing. I just want you to say clearly that you believe homelessness is a crime and homeless populations should be housed in prisons. Btw this was also tried before in Industrial England, this is essentially what "debtors prisons" referenced in a Christmas Carol are.
    - lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
      So you can be clear: have any of your "superior" solutions made the problem better or worse?
      - PheonixPharts 2y ago
        Yes, per the case itself: cities are responsible for creating public spaces that where homelessness is allow. It can be shelters or spaces where tent cities are legally allowed. The case is not arguing that homeless people should be able to sleep anywhere, it's saying that if you don't provide a legal space for them to live, then you can't remove them from public spaces. Again if you don't believe homeless should have a place to exist, then you do believe they should be in prison? Can you just clarify this is what you mean.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Yes, absolutely. Good approaches exist! https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chronic-homelessness-by-91-percent-heres-how https://www.npr.org/2015/12/10/459100751/utah-reduced-chroni...
  - klyrs 2y ago
    The Harlem housing projects.
sli 2y ago
It is utterly ghoulish to try and convince people to hate other human beings simply because they're unfortunate.
- lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
  That's not what I'm doing.

HDThoreaun 2y ago

yes.