4 ms·

GDP is not a meaningful measurement unless you somehow believe in nonsense trickle-down economics of the most extreme degree.

verteu 2y ago
But inflation-adjusted median & 10th percentile wages have grown L20yrs, (per my other comment in the thread), right?
- readyman 2y ago
  Sounds meaningful for the 10th percentile, but what about everybody else? I assume this is supposed to be a joke?
  - ajmurmann 2y ago
    Can you provide a single metric that's bad right now? Employment is close to a record high, PPP median income is up. Housing cost isn't great, but homeownership rates are still as high as ever. It's mostly vibes that are down. Edit: the parent also called out median comp being up. Again, the persistence of the negative vibes without any actual data reinforces how the media now negatively impacts everyone's attitudes and ultimately mental health
    - verteu 2y ago
      It does seem that US COLA-wages are growing more slowly than Europe (though better than Canada), while our stock market outperforms. So one could make a claim that more profits should go to labor, rather than capital. Some numbers (all the usual "mean-vs-median" caveats apply, though IME it rarely changes much): France mean wages (2001-2022): 41706/26275 = 1.59 (2.2%/yr) France CPI (2001-2022): 108.74/80.39 = 1.35 (1.4%/yr) GB mean weekly wages (2001-2022): 599/321 = 1.87 (3.0%/yr!) GB CPI: 114.6/73.5 (2001-2022): = 1.56 (2.14%/yr) Canada mean wages (2001-2022): 14,176.4/10,405.1 = 1.36 (1.5%/yr) Canada CPI (2001-2022): 146.3/96.8 = 1.51 (2.0%/yr) https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/ https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/ https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/l55o/mm23 https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/time... https://www.statista.com/statistics/416204/average-annual-wages-france-y-on-y-in-euros/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/416204/average-annual-wa...
      - ajmurmann 2y ago
        Things are still getting better though. One can be jealous that too little gets shared, but it's looking up for everyone. This is great!
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
How much do you expect to trickle down? Everyone with a retirement account benefits. How is that nonsense?
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Some is expected to trickle. But denying trickle down economics means denying that helping the rich is an effective way to help the poor.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    What do you mean by helping the rich?
- fwip 2y ago
  Well, less than half of American households have money in their retirement account. And even for people with significant funds in their retirement accounts, that money will not be readily accessible (without penalty) for, on average, two decades or more.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
    You can withdraw from a Roth IRA penalty-free after holding for 5 years.

verteu 2y ago

But inflation-adjusted median & 10th percentile wages have grown L20yrs, (per my other comment in the thread), right?

readyman 2y ago
Sounds meaningful for the 10th percentile, but what about everybody else? I assume this is supposed to be a joke?
- ajmurmann 2y ago
  Can you provide a single metric that's bad right now? Employment is close to a record high, PPP median income is up. Housing cost isn't great, but homeownership rates are still as high as ever. It's mostly vibes that are down. Edit: the parent also called out median comp being up. Again, the persistence of the negative vibes without any actual data reinforces how the media now negatively impacts everyone's attitudes and ultimately mental health
  - verteu 2y ago
    It does seem that US COLA-wages are growing more slowly than Europe (though better than Canada), while our stock market outperforms. So one could make a claim that more profits should go to labor, rather than capital. Some numbers (all the usual "mean-vs-median" caveats apply, though IME it rarely changes much): France mean wages (2001-2022): 41706/26275 = 1.59 (2.2%/yr) France CPI (2001-2022): 108.74/80.39 = 1.35 (1.4%/yr) GB mean weekly wages (2001-2022): 599/321 = 1.87 (3.0%/yr!) GB CPI: 114.6/73.5 (2001-2022): = 1.56 (2.14%/yr) Canada mean wages (2001-2022): 14,176.4/10,405.1 = 1.36 (1.5%/yr) Canada CPI (2001-2022): 146.3/96.8 = 1.51 (2.0%/yr) https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/ https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/ https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/timeseries/l55o/mm23 https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/time... https://www.statista.com/statistics/416204/average-annual-wages-france-y-on-y-in-euros/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/416204/average-annual-wa...
    - ajmurmann 2y ago
      Things are still getting better though. One can be jealous that too little gets shared, but it's looking up for everyone. This is great!

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

How much do you expect to trickle down? Everyone with a retirement account benefits. How is that nonsense?

jncfhnb 2y ago
Some is expected to trickle. But denying trickle down economics means denying that helping the rich is an effective way to help the poor.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  What do you mean by helping the rich?
fwip 2y ago
Well, less than half of American households have money in their retirement account. And even for people with significant funds in their retirement accounts, that money will not be readily accessible (without penalty) for, on average, two decades or more.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  You can withdraw from a Roth IRA penalty-free after holding for 5 years.