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I know a couple who are teachers, elementary and high school. They said the students are always on their phones, with earbuds, but trying to get them to stop ca

I know a couple who are teachers, elementary and high school. They said the students are always on their phones, with earbuds, but trying to get them to stop can be dangerous. Students get aggressive and sometimes violent when teachers try to enforce decorum and attention. I think banning phones in schools is an urgent need, at the very least.

chmod600 2y ago
Maybe a dumb idea, but can schools use jamming or shielding?
- newsclues 2y ago
  Phones have offline content and wired headphones exist. People adapt
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    Forget all the Khan Academies of the world, let kids be bored on TI-83s and learn programming the ol' fashioned way!
  - chmod600 2y ago
    Are the adaptations healthier?
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  Not without breaking several laws, and potentially putting people in danger - how do you call 911 in an emergency if the school is in a signal blackout?
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Shielding is probably bad and expensive, but is it illegal?
    - pavel_lishin 2y ago
      Yes: https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement
      - ben_w 2y ago
        That's jamming, not shielding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
  - dghlsakjg 2y ago
    Landlines, voip, panic buttons. People made calls to 911 before the iPhone was invented. When I was in school every single classroom was wired for landlines and Ethernet. You can also set up your wifi networks in ways that limit certain things and not others.
    - pavel_lishin 2y ago
      > When I was in school every single classroom was wired for landlines and Ethernet. Alright, but they're not wired now. Neither are bathrooms, cafeterias, hallways, or other place where someone might have a stroke, a heart attack, a seizure. And unfortunately, gunmen in school are a thing, and if you're a teacher, scrambling for the wall-phone while you can hear gunshots in the next room over is significantly more difficult than reaching into your pocket for your phone.
      - chmod600 2y ago
        Maybe some kind of smart network could only allow 911 calls through, and no data? If phones in schools really are bad for kids, it seems like we could probably sort out some of these objections?
- Findecanor 2y ago
  I have long thought that there should be a network protocol that would achieve that in practice, but which would let emergency calls through. Transponders that could be deployed in settings such as schools, hospitals and movie theatres to tell devices to enter a limited mode. Support for the protocol would be compulsory. But I would think that the telecom industry does not want that.
vundercind 2y ago
It’s deeply weird to me that we couldn’t have a Walkman, pager, game boy, portable tv, or small camera in class without it getting taken away if it was spotted, but now we’re like “yeah sure they can have a combo device that’s all of those, why not?”
- ben_w 2y ago
  It was Tamagotchis that got taken away in my school, but I agree.
- Ajay-p 2y ago
  It's because of Columbine. Parents demanded to be allowed to reach their children anytime.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    I was in iirc junior high when that happened. Cell phones were banned through high school, nonetheless. I think by the very end they were allowed but only in lockers, never to be seen, and they better never make a sound, mostly as an accommodation for sports kids who’d be around for practice and such after school was out. It didn’t become normal until after smartphones, some time in the 20-teens.
wccrawford 2y ago
Students have always done whatever they could to get their own way. Once we took away basically all the power that teachers had, the students just had to put their foot down to get their own way. I get that a lot of the "power" that teachers had was inappropriate, just as spanking, but now they often can't even call the parents and have the child sent home. If you can't do anything about a student disobeying the rules, what can you do? It's not the teachers' fault, and expecting them to fix the situation is pointless.
ben_w 2y ago
Around a century ago, after a lot of pressure due to people hurting themselves and their families by over-consuming liquor, the USA passed the 18th amendment. I'm told that at least some of the campaigners were originally aiming for just liquor, not all alcohol. I won't be surprised if history repeats, and some chunk of the world bans all social media (including forums like this one) despite the majority of the harm being concentrated into specific social networks and the strong drive that led to it being a thing in the first place.

chmod600 2y ago

Maybe a dumb idea, but can schools use jamming or shielding?

newsclues 2y ago
Phones have offline content and wired headphones exist. People adapt
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  Forget all the Khan Academies of the world, let kids be bored on TI-83s and learn programming the ol' fashioned way!
- chmod600 2y ago
  Are the adaptations healthier?
pavel_lishin 2y ago
Not without breaking several laws, and potentially putting people in danger - how do you call 911 in an emergency if the school is in a signal blackout?
- ben_w 2y ago
  Shielding is probably bad and expensive, but is it illegal?
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    Yes: https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement https://www.fcc.gov/general/jammer-enforcement
    - ben_w 2y ago
      That's jamming, not shielding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  Landlines, voip, panic buttons. People made calls to 911 before the iPhone was invented. When I was in school every single classroom was wired for landlines and Ethernet. You can also set up your wifi networks in ways that limit certain things and not others.
  - pavel_lishin 2y ago
    > When I was in school every single classroom was wired for landlines and Ethernet. Alright, but they're not wired now. Neither are bathrooms, cafeterias, hallways, or other place where someone might have a stroke, a heart attack, a seizure. And unfortunately, gunmen in school are a thing, and if you're a teacher, scrambling for the wall-phone while you can hear gunshots in the next room over is significantly more difficult than reaching into your pocket for your phone.
    - chmod600 2y ago
      Maybe some kind of smart network could only allow 911 calls through, and no data? If phones in schools really are bad for kids, it seems like we could probably sort out some of these objections?
Findecanor 2y ago
I have long thought that there should be a network protocol that would achieve that in practice, but which would let emergency calls through. Transponders that could be deployed in settings such as schools, hospitals and movie theatres to tell devices to enter a limited mode. Support for the protocol would be compulsory. But I would think that the telecom industry does not want that.

vundercind 2y ago

It’s deeply weird to me that we couldn’t have a Walkman, pager, game boy, portable tv, or small camera in class without it getting taken away if it was spotted, but now we’re like “yeah sure they can have a combo device that’s all of those, why not?”

ben_w 2y ago
It was Tamagotchis that got taken away in my school, but I agree.
Ajay-p 2y ago
It's because of Columbine. Parents demanded to be allowed to reach their children anytime.
- vundercind 2y ago
  I was in iirc junior high when that happened. Cell phones were banned through high school, nonetheless. I think by the very end they were allowed but only in lockers, never to be seen, and they better never make a sound, mostly as an accommodation for sports kids who’d be around for practice and such after school was out. It didn’t become normal until after smartphones, some time in the 20-teens.

wccrawford 2y ago

Students have always done whatever they could to get their own way. Once we took away basically all the power that teachers had, the students just had to put their foot down to get their own way. I get that a lot of the "power" that teachers had was inappropriate, just as spanking, but now they often can't even call the parents and have the child sent home. If you can't do anything about a student disobeying the rules, what can you do? It's not the teachers' fault, and expecting them to fix the situation is pointless.

ben_w 2y ago

Around a century ago, after a lot of pressure due to people hurting themselves and their families by over-consuming liquor, the USA passed the 18th amendment. I'm told that at least some of the campaigners were originally aiming for just liquor, not all alcohol. I won't be surprised if history repeats, and some chunk of the world bans all social media (including forums like this one) despite the majority of the harm being concentrated into specific social networks and the strong drive that led to it being a thing in the first place.