6 ms·

How much of this due to flight controllers and aircraft crew being overworked. Looks like the FAA is starting to take action https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/19/us/

How much of this due to flight controllers and aircraft crew being overworked. Looks like the FAA is starting to take action https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/19/us/faa-to-increase-time-off-between-air-traffic-controller-shifts-after-report-highlights-risks/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/19/us/faa-to-increase-time-off-b...

meowster 2y ago
Air Traffic Controller here. That is going to screw up our schedules even worse. It also violates the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the FAA and the Air Traffic Controller's union. The FAA released that without discussing it with the union beforehand. The biggest complaint among Air Traffic Controllers is pay. Second is staffing. Staffing is what is causing Controllers to work 6-day-workweeks and causing fatigue, not the time in-between shifts. Most controllers are willing to put up with it if the pay is commensurate with what we're being told to do. But our effective pay is dwindling with inflation while pilots are getting raises and we are not. It's VERY demoralizing and causing people to quit, which makes staffing worse. The easiest and best fix is to increase our pay. (It's also demoralizing when a Controller f**s up so bad and so egregiously, that they aren't fired unless it makes the news. I can't give any examples without doxing myself.) ##### Reading the article now, but no one likes Paul Rinaldi. He extended the CBA right before he left office which caught everyone by surprise because they said Biden is the "most labor friendly president" and no one tried to negotiate pay raises in the midst of bad inflation. On top of that, then Rinaldi gets a 250k/year "consulting" contract with the union. Now the union is saying they are going to extend the contract again because they're afraid if Trump becomes President, we will get screwed, but we're already getting screwed and the Controllers wants to renegotiate the contract anyway. Our union is not effective right now, and the FAA is fine with that. And since ATC is government, we cannot take any work action that others like pilots can which is why they're getting 40% raises and we are not. ##### Opinions are my own, etc. We can get in trouble for talking to the media. Supposedly r/ATC is being censored which is why someone created r/ATC2 which is a little more unhinged, but still accurately reflects controllers' frustration on pay.
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  If you don’t mind me asking while you’re here, how is the technology you’re working with? Do you feel you have all the technological advantage reasonably and safely possible for doing your job as comfortably as possible?
  - meowster 2y ago
    The technology is old, but it's solid. It's never crashed on us while working. I think the only time they reboot it is at night when traffic is low and they do an update, but it's seemless because there are two systems. They update one and switch us to it, then update the other. I work in an Air Route Traffic Control Center, not a tower. If you asked me that a couple of years ago, I would say being able to talk with the pilots, but now the airlines are starting to adopt CPDLC which allows us to send text commands (to climb, turn, etc) rather than relying on voice communication. Not everyone has it though.
    - sparcpile 2y ago
      ERAM is multichannel, which is why we do the failover between A-channel and B-channel during APL and OS CUTO. If I remember the SSMs right, we do the update on the B-channel first and once it has been approved by TechOps, A-channel is then updated. Everything is built to provide a fallback in cause of failure, including the OS updates when they come in.
      - jancsika 2y ago
        How are the interstitial ads handled in an OS such as this? Is the ad running time factored into the control system on the kernel level? Do the operators have a realtime safe button press to "skip ad" in high traffic situations?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        2y ago
SoftTalker 2y ago
Link to the recent memo from FAA administrator Mike Whitaker, which includes links to a recent report on the risks introduced by controller fatigue, and other related documents. https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/statement-faa-administrator-mike-whitaker https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/statement-faa-administrator-mik...
- meowster 2y ago
  Implementating ten hours between our shifts will cause our shifts to be worse overall, introducing more controller fatigue. Large/busy facilities are 24/7, to accomplish staffing and give everyone regular schedules, we use what's called a "rattler": the controller starts their work week off with a late shift and ends their week with an early shift or midshift. Either we go opposite of that which gives us ZERO weekends, or we have weeks of straight days followed by weeks of straight mids which totally destroys our life outside of work. The only way the ten hour down time could be reasonably implemented is if they make our shifts 6 hours instead of 8, and we work 30-hour weeks, but then the FAA would use that to say we shouldn't get a raise because we're working less. The only reasonable way to fight fatigue is to increase the pay which will help staffing (attract tallent that does not washout of training, and keeps people from quitting or retiring early).

meowster 2y ago

Air Traffic Controller here. That is going to screw up our schedules even worse. It also violates the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the FAA and the Air Traffic Controller's union. The FAA released that without discussing it with the union beforehand. The biggest complaint among Air Traffic Controllers is pay. Second is staffing. Staffing is what is causing Controllers to work 6-day-workweeks and causing fatigue, not the time in-between shifts. Most controllers are willing to put up with it if the pay is commensurate with what we're being told to do. But our effective pay is dwindling with inflation while pilots are getting raises and we are not. It's VERY demoralizing and causing people to quit, which makes staffing worse. The easiest and best fix is to increase our pay. (It's also demoralizing when a Controller f**s up so bad and so egregiously, that they aren't fired unless it makes the news. I can't give any examples without doxing myself.) ##### Reading the article now, but no one likes Paul Rinaldi. He extended the CBA right before he left office which caught everyone by surprise because they said Biden is the "most labor friendly president" and no one tried to negotiate pay raises in the midst of bad inflation. On top of that, then Rinaldi gets a 250k/year "consulting" contract with the union. Now the union is saying they are going to extend the contract again because they're afraid if Trump becomes President, we will get screwed, but we're already getting screwed and the Controllers wants to renegotiate the contract anyway. Our union is not effective right now, and the FAA is fine with that. And since ATC is government, we cannot take any work action that others like pilots can which is why they're getting 40% raises and we are not. ##### Opinions are my own, etc. We can get in trouble for talking to the media. Supposedly r/ATC is being censored which is why someone created r/ATC2 which is a little more unhinged, but still accurately reflects controllers' frustration on pay.

Waterluvian 2y ago
If you don’t mind me asking while you’re here, how is the technology you’re working with? Do you feel you have all the technological advantage reasonably and safely possible for doing your job as comfortably as possible?
- meowster 2y ago
  The technology is old, but it's solid. It's never crashed on us while working. I think the only time they reboot it is at night when traffic is low and they do an update, but it's seemless because there are two systems. They update one and switch us to it, then update the other. I work in an Air Route Traffic Control Center, not a tower. If you asked me that a couple of years ago, I would say being able to talk with the pilots, but now the airlines are starting to adopt CPDLC which allows us to send text commands (to climb, turn, etc) rather than relying on voice communication. Not everyone has it though.
  - sparcpile 2y ago
    ERAM is multichannel, which is why we do the failover between A-channel and B-channel during APL and OS CUTO. If I remember the SSMs right, we do the update on the B-channel first and once it has been approved by TechOps, A-channel is then updated. Everything is built to provide a fallback in cause of failure, including the OS updates when they come in.
    - jancsika 2y ago
      How are the interstitial ads handled in an OS such as this? Is the ad running time factored into the control system on the kernel level? Do the operators have a realtime safe button press to "skip ad" in high traffic situations?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - 2y ago

SoftTalker 2y ago

Link to the recent memo from FAA administrator Mike Whitaker, which includes links to a recent report on the risks introduced by controller fatigue, and other related documents. https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/statement-faa-administrator-mike-whitaker https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/statement-faa-administrator-mik...

meowster 2y ago
Implementating ten hours between our shifts will cause our shifts to be worse overall, introducing more controller fatigue. Large/busy facilities are 24/7, to accomplish staffing and give everyone regular schedules, we use what's called a "rattler": the controller starts their work week off with a late shift and ends their week with an early shift or midshift. Either we go opposite of that which gives us ZERO weekends, or we have weeks of straight days followed by weeks of straight mids which totally destroys our life outside of work. The only way the ten hour down time could be reasonably implemented is if they make our shifts 6 hours instead of 8, and we work 30-hour weeks, but then the FAA would use that to say we shouldn't get a raise because we're working less. The only reasonable way to fight fatigue is to increase the pay which will help staffing (attract tallent that does not washout of training, and keeps people from quitting or retiring early).