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> Apparently folks in the USSR once wanted to find aliens because they assumed that, as aliens must be very smart, they’d be communists. On the other hand, the

> Apparently folks in the USSR once wanted to find aliens because they assumed that, as aliens must be very smart, they’d be communists. On the other hand, the conceit of Pandora's Planet (1973) was that the aliens were technologically advanced, but somewhat earnest and honest and dim*, so they encounter earth and get steamrollered by our advertising, conmen, and fads. Fast forwarding half a century, I wonder if a Federation of Planets counterpart would have the memetic antibodies to resist assimilation via gamification dark patterns? * this now seems less plausible to me than it did at the time; I'm guessing a large driver for developing (energy-intensive!) intelligence is spending much of your time around species that indicate one action but intend a different one.

somenameforme 3y ago
It's all about fertility, reproduction. When intelligence offers a greater chance of fertility, that species will trend towards becoming more intelligent. In the scenario where intelligence starts to become an impediment to reproduction, like exactly what is happening right now with humans, then a species will start to become less intelligent. So for an alien species to succeed, they're likely to need to adopt some sort of ideology that: - Keeps fertility high - Keeps outward motivation up - Protects from pleasure traps Explaining parts 2&3 - imagine we create some sort of virtual device that one plugs in and it just basically gives you endless pleasure. If enough people would be interested in such a device, it could easily destroy a species. A rather odd 'great filter' of the Fermi Paradox. It's a species not going out with a bang or a whimper, but something more like a moan. Similarly, if people are just comfortable enough with what and where they are, then they may not have the motivation to carry out the massive work required to actually explore the stars. Putting these altogether, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the first intelligent alien species we meet immediately begins trying to convert us to their God(s). Convert all the infidels of the universe seems like one sure fire solution for all the above. It also sets the stage for dystopia for those who choose not to acknowledge the grace of Qzar'dn the Almighty.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  The species with the greatest fertility (prokaryotes) are the least intelligent. (and looking at r-selected vs K-selected species in general the inverse relationship seems to hold: greater intelligence correlates with lower litter size; compare frogs and rats)
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    Yes, and K-selected species are much more likely to end up dying off. So we're considering an intelligent species that both managed to stay intelligent and also managed to survive against numerous predictable obstacles, including even overcoming hedonism itself which we may one day be able to 'produce' as infinitely and cheaply as anything else. It really limits the practically viable type of groups that we'd run into, and largely rejects the overwhelming majority of the tropes of sci-fi. Because most utopic visions in sci-fi assume a sort of post-scarcity universe where practically everything is available in practically infinite quantities. Yet exactly 0 (to my knowledge) have ever explained how this didn't just result in mass self indulgence driving an extinction level fertility crisis. In fact the only episode I can even think of that hit on this was "The Game" [1] in Star Trek, and it ended up being some trite story about the addiction being used as a foreign weapon, and not as an naturally emergent self destructive behavior of a society that surpasses certain technical/material milestones. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_...
    - 082349872349872 3y ago
      If I ever stop seeing youngsters around me pairing off, or the slightly less young having children, I'll start worrying about wireheaded fertility crises. Until then I'm burning cycles on more pressing sci-fi inspired problems, like whether or not it is ethical to derive sustenance from Eloi if you just drink their blood (like the Maasai?) instead of eating them (like the Fore?).
      - somenameforme 3y ago

somenameforme 3y ago

It's all about fertility, reproduction. When intelligence offers a greater chance of fertility, that species will trend towards becoming more intelligent. In the scenario where intelligence starts to become an impediment to reproduction, like exactly what is happening right now with humans, then a species will start to become less intelligent. So for an alien species to succeed, they're likely to need to adopt some sort of ideology that: - Keeps fertility high - Keeps outward motivation up - Protects from pleasure traps Explaining parts 2&3 - imagine we create some sort of virtual device that one plugs in and it just basically gives you endless pleasure. If enough people would be interested in such a device, it could easily destroy a species. A rather odd 'great filter' of the Fermi Paradox. It's a species not going out with a bang or a whimper, but something more like a moan. Similarly, if people are just comfortable enough with what and where they are, then they may not have the motivation to carry out the massive work required to actually explore the stars. Putting these altogether, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the first intelligent alien species we meet immediately begins trying to convert us to their God(s). Convert all the infidels of the universe seems like one sure fire solution for all the above. It also sets the stage for dystopia for those who choose not to acknowledge the grace of Qzar'dn the Almighty.

082349872349872 3y ago
The species with the greatest fertility (prokaryotes) are the least intelligent. (and looking at r-selected vs K-selected species in general the inverse relationship seems to hold: greater intelligence correlates with lower litter size; compare frogs and rats)
- somenameforme 3y ago
  Yes, and K-selected species are much more likely to end up dying off. So we're considering an intelligent species that both managed to stay intelligent and also managed to survive against numerous predictable obstacles, including even overcoming hedonism itself which we may one day be able to 'produce' as infinitely and cheaply as anything else. It really limits the practically viable type of groups that we'd run into, and largely rejects the overwhelming majority of the tropes of sci-fi. Because most utopic visions in sci-fi assume a sort of post-scarcity universe where practically everything is available in practically infinite quantities. Yet exactly 0 (to my knowledge) have ever explained how this didn't just result in mass self indulgence driving an extinction level fertility crisis. In fact the only episode I can even think of that hit on this was "The Game" [1] in Star Trek, and it ended up being some trite story about the addiction being used as a foreign weapon, and not as an naturally emergent self destructive behavior of a society that surpasses certain technical/material milestones. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_...
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    If I ever stop seeing youngsters around me pairing off, or the slightly less young having children, I'll start worrying about wireheaded fertility crises. Until then I'm burning cycles on more pressing sci-fi inspired problems, like whether or not it is ethical to derive sustenance from Eloi if you just drink their blood (like the Maasai?) instead of eating them (like the Fore?).
    - somenameforme 3y ago