5 ms·

Environment shapes emotional cognitive abilities more than genes

98 points by NalNezumi 3y ago

danparsonson 3y ago
> The investigators found that pairs of twins who had parents with higher levels of education and higher family incomes have similar results to each other, regardless of whether they were identical or fraternal. These observations suggested that familial environment was more likely to influence metacognitive abilities than genetics. Do they? Couldn't this alternatively show that metacognitive abilities are more broadly heritable? I would've thought that a twin study where identical twins were raised in different environments would be far more instructive? What am I missing here?
- littlestymaar 3y ago
  > I would've thought that a twin study where identical twins were raised in different environments would be far more instructive? Both are instructive, but identical twins raised in different environment is a very small group compared to the other group, and there's a very strong confounding factor between them that's likely to have a massive impact on the later results: being separated from you twin brother/sister indicates you've had some pretty chaotic early life.
  - drowsspa 3y ago
    And isn't the womb an environment already?
    - littlestymaar 3y ago
      Definitely (the most obvious illustration of this are alcohol or tobacco use during pregnancy, but there's likely millions of other factor playing a role as well).
westurner 3y ago
> Decades of extensive research utilizing the classical twin paradigm have consistently demonstrated the heritability of nearly all cognitive abilities so far investigated. > “Our findings emphasize that these shared family environmental factors, such as parental nurturing and the transmission of cultural values, likely play a significant role in shaping the mental state representations in metacognition and mentalizing.”* "Distinct Genetic and Environmental Origins of Hierarchical Cognitive Abilities in Adult Humans" (2024) https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)00388-7 https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)003... : > Human cognitive abilities ranging from basic perceptions to complex social behaviors exhibit substantial variation in individual differences. These cognitive functions can be categorized into a two-order hierarchy based on the levels of cognitive processes. Second-order cognition including metacognition and mentalizing monitors and regulates first-order cognitive processes. These two-order hierarchical cognitive functions exhibit distinct abilities. However, it remains unclear whether individual differences in these cognitive abilities have distinct origins. We employ the classical twin paradigm to compare the genetic and environmental contributions to the two-order cognitive abilities in the same tasks from the same population. The results reveal that individual differences in first-order cognitive abilities were primarily influenced by genetic factors. Conversely, the second-order cognitive abilities have a stronger influence from shared environmental factors. These findings suggest that the abilities of metacognition and mentalizing in adults are profoundly shaped by their environmental experiences and less determined by their biological nature.
- westurner 3y ago
  Si se puedes! Emotional self regulation is a normed behavior that is modelable. Head start programs would thus be justified in having SEL Social and Emotional Learning components; but how much more effective is parental behavioral modeling than non-parental caregiving? Can't be done. In Africa, they say "It takes a village". One of perhaps 20 questions to split the sets with: "Can people change?"
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    fulltext: https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)00388-7 https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)003... > It takes a village Compare the first 36 characters of the 3 Character Classic: https://ctext.org/three-character-classic https://ctext.org/three-character-classic > Can people change? With training, dogs and horses improve their cross-species mentalizing; I'd hope training humans on same-species would be even easier.
robblbobbl 3y ago
100% true
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
MasPlan 3y ago
Financial investment, nutrition and parental time investment have also shown significant impacts all forms of development (https://www.nominalnews.com/p/early-child-investment-child-tax https://www.nominalnews.com/p/early-child-investment-child-t...). Discerning these impacts will always be difficult. Regardless, it appears that external factors do play a more an important role than maybe inherent ones.
Andrex 3y ago
It's comforting to see the data bear Tabula Rasa out.
LiquidPolymer 3y ago
I've been pondering this lately because of the dynamics of myself and my siblings. We did have a rough time growing up and my mother did the best she could in a bad situation. From a large gaggle of siblings and cousins, I am the only one who emerged into a middle class life with an interesting career. Poverty, addiction, and early death are the norm for my family. My mother was nurturing and supportive. She realized my potential and encouraged me the entire time. I help support her these days and I'm proud she lives well. We talk on the phone frequently about philosophy, religion, politics and more. She is lively and engaged. Yet my half brother and sister complain endlessly how their lives were ruined by our mother. They have very detailed stories of privation and emotional abuse. They are older yet we lived together growing up. I don't recognize any of the things they claim. Its like they lived a completely different life. My mother takes their criticism to heart and it hurts when they loudly make these claims. Yet, I must consider that my siblings seem emotionally stunted. I think this is genetic. At various times they both have demanded their "inheritance" early which is non-existent. My siblings fail the marshmallow test over and over again as adults. Any financial windfall is drained away immediately on frivolous items. I just found out my brother got a PPP loan somehow (he has zero employees) and spent the funds on a large van and a bunch of expensive guns. I'm guessing this will be eventually discovered and once again he will face dire consequences. (he just got his felony record expunged - hence the guns). I don't know what to make of this. I feel like an alien being whenever I see my siblings or cousins. I live in a house and still have my teeth. I don't smoke meth or fent. Their life decisions are a mystery to me.
- areoform 3y ago
  Have you considered that you might have been the golden child and they weren't? People can cause great harm with the best of intentions. Especially when they are overwhelmed. Children who have been neglected end up having impaired emotional regulation in adulthood. You can view it as genetics, or see it as a lesson of what you could have been had you been born in different shoes. It isn't a satisfying conclusion or story, but it is what it is. What matters is picking up the pieces and moving on.
- oneepic 3y ago
  Not an expert, but I believe the human brain uses some mechanisms to stay on the same track even if there are problems with that track. Practically, if something bad did happen to your siblings and it was memorable, it's possible they held on to it and lived as though their lives were predetermined from that. This means they are choosing to ignore your example and your mom's example. (edit: almost forgot, remember they are afraid of your mom and afraid of leaving their current state, contributes to them staying where they are)
begueradj 3y ago
This is similar to what I read in a book called "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce H. Lipton.
wuttaDeigh 3y ago
[dead]

98 points by NalNezumi 3y ago

> The investigators found that pairs of twins who had parents with higher levels of education and higher family incomes have similar results to each other, regardless of whether they were identical or fraternal. These observations suggested that familial environment was more likely to influence metacognitive abilities than genetics. Do they? Couldn't this alternatively show that metacognitive abilities are more broadly heritable? I would've thought that a twin study where identical twins were raised in different environments would be far more instructive? What am I missing here?

littlestymaar 3y ago
> I would've thought that a twin study where identical twins were raised in different environments would be far more instructive? Both are instructive, but identical twins raised in different environment is a very small group compared to the other group, and there's a very strong confounding factor between them that's likely to have a massive impact on the later results: being separated from you twin brother/sister indicates you've had some pretty chaotic early life.
- drowsspa 3y ago
  And isn't the womb an environment already?
  - littlestymaar 3y ago
    Definitely (the most obvious illustration of this are alcohol or tobacco use during pregnancy, but there's likely millions of other factor playing a role as well).

westurner 3y ago

> Decades of extensive research utilizing the classical twin paradigm have consistently demonstrated the heritability of nearly all cognitive abilities so far investigated. > “Our findings emphasize that these shared family environmental factors, such as parental nurturing and the transmission of cultural values, likely play a significant role in shaping the mental state representations in metacognition and mentalizing.”* "Distinct Genetic and Environmental Origins of Hierarchical Cognitive Abilities in Adult Humans" (2024) https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)00388-7 https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)003... : > Human cognitive abilities ranging from basic perceptions to complex social behaviors exhibit substantial variation in individual differences. These cognitive functions can be categorized into a two-order hierarchy based on the levels of cognitive processes. Second-order cognition including metacognition and mentalizing monitors and regulates first-order cognitive processes. These two-order hierarchical cognitive functions exhibit distinct abilities. However, it remains unclear whether individual differences in these cognitive abilities have distinct origins. We employ the classical twin paradigm to compare the genetic and environmental contributions to the two-order cognitive abilities in the same tasks from the same population. The results reveal that individual differences in first-order cognitive abilities were primarily influenced by genetic factors. Conversely, the second-order cognitive abilities have a stronger influence from shared environmental factors. These findings suggest that the abilities of metacognition and mentalizing in adults are profoundly shaped by their environmental experiences and less determined by their biological nature.

westurner 3y ago
Si se puedes! Emotional self regulation is a normed behavior that is modelable. Head start programs would thus be justified in having SEL Social and Emotional Learning components; but how much more effective is parental behavioral modeling than non-parental caregiving? Can't be done. In Africa, they say "It takes a village". One of perhaps 20 questions to split the sets with: "Can people change?"
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  fulltext: https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)00388-7 https://www.cell.com/cell-reports/fulltext/S2211-1247(24)003... > It takes a village Compare the first 36 characters of the 3 Character Classic: https://ctext.org/three-character-classic https://ctext.org/three-character-classic > Can people change? With training, dogs and horses improve their cross-species mentalizing; I'd hope training humans on same-species would be even easier.

robblbobbl 3y ago

100% true

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

MasPlan 3y ago

Financial investment, nutrition and parental time investment have also shown significant impacts all forms of development (https://www.nominalnews.com/p/early-child-investment-child-tax https://www.nominalnews.com/p/early-child-investment-child-t...). Discerning these impacts will always be difficult. Regardless, it appears that external factors do play a more an important role than maybe inherent ones.

Andrex 3y ago

It's comforting to see the data bear Tabula Rasa out.

LiquidPolymer 3y ago

I've been pondering this lately because of the dynamics of myself and my siblings. We did have a rough time growing up and my mother did the best she could in a bad situation. From a large gaggle of siblings and cousins, I am the only one who emerged into a middle class life with an interesting career. Poverty, addiction, and early death are the norm for my family. My mother was nurturing and supportive. She realized my potential and encouraged me the entire time. I help support her these days and I'm proud she lives well. We talk on the phone frequently about philosophy, religion, politics and more. She is lively and engaged. Yet my half brother and sister complain endlessly how their lives were ruined by our mother. They have very detailed stories of privation and emotional abuse. They are older yet we lived together growing up. I don't recognize any of the things they claim. Its like they lived a completely different life. My mother takes their criticism to heart and it hurts when they loudly make these claims. Yet, I must consider that my siblings seem emotionally stunted. I think this is genetic. At various times they both have demanded their "inheritance" early which is non-existent. My siblings fail the marshmallow test over and over again as adults. Any financial windfall is drained away immediately on frivolous items. I just found out my brother got a PPP loan somehow (he has zero employees) and spent the funds on a large van and a bunch of expensive guns. I'm guessing this will be eventually discovered and once again he will face dire consequences. (he just got his felony record expunged - hence the guns). I don't know what to make of this. I feel like an alien being whenever I see my siblings or cousins. I live in a house and still have my teeth. I don't smoke meth or fent. Their life decisions are a mystery to me.

areoform 3y ago
Have you considered that you might have been the golden child and they weren't? People can cause great harm with the best of intentions. Especially when they are overwhelmed. Children who have been neglected end up having impaired emotional regulation in adulthood. You can view it as genetics, or see it as a lesson of what you could have been had you been born in different shoes. It isn't a satisfying conclusion or story, but it is what it is. What matters is picking up the pieces and moving on.
oneepic 3y ago
Not an expert, but I believe the human brain uses some mechanisms to stay on the same track even if there are problems with that track. Practically, if something bad did happen to your siblings and it was memorable, it's possible they held on to it and lived as though their lives were predetermined from that. This means they are choosing to ignore your example and your mom's example. (edit: almost forgot, remember they are afraid of your mom and afraid of leaving their current state, contributes to them staying where they are)

begueradj 3y ago

This is similar to what I read in a book called "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce H. Lipton.

wuttaDeigh 3y ago

[dead]