6 ms·

April 24 is JavaScript Naked Day – Browse the web without JavaScript

59 points by anste 2y ago

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
draw_down 2y ago
[dead]
Raed667 2y ago
No thank you.
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
A very worthy initiative. Unfortunately, the CMS my work mandates requires js, so this is a non-starter for me. What I may do, is run my work profile as regular, but turn off js for my non-work profile. I can complain all I like about the work CMS, but that would be fighting a losing battle.
hobs 2y ago
I have used noscript + ublock origin for almost a decade now, approving js on some sites is not a big deal and I have had zero issues with malware or popups or other garbage website. You can tell when a website is a tracker nightmare when it wont load HTML text content without javascript.
difosfor 2y ago
Next up: CSS naked day? Seriously though, I respect the ideal of using HTML as much as possible for what it's made. But the web is more than just pure content sites. And Javascript provides a lot of nice things as well.
- oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
  The web is more than just pure content and, yes, some of it requires JavaScript to function. But it's a lot less than sites actually allow for. We shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of much, much better than the status quo.
- shiomiru 2y ago
  From the website: > JS Naked Day started because we were jealous of CSS Naked Day.[0] [0]: https://css-naked-day.github.io/ https://css-naked-day.github.io/
- Retr0id 2y ago
  Per the article, CSS naked day was the inspiration. https://css-naked-day.github.io/ https://css-naked-day.github.io/
- anste 2y ago
  There are certainly web apps that could not function without JavaScript. This initiative is more of a protest to shoving functionally useless JavaScript down your throat when you browse a news site or read an article. JavaScript should progressively enhance those types of websites, and not be a strict requirement.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I think they block everything for awareness. “Use a reasonable amount of JavaScript day” would not be very memorable. In actuality the right thing to do is leave JavaScript blocked by default, and then think critically about whether or not you trust a site enough to download and run a random program from it. If so, then JavaScript could be enabled.
- difosfor 2y ago
  Ah, haha, CSS naked day was actually first? I do have to admit that most of what I do on the web is consume content and there most JS like analytics and ads is useless to me. So I guess I might actually try NoScript for a day after all.
largbae 2y ago
Completely disabling JavaScript is a no-go these days. But Firefox+NoScript is both enlightening and refreshing. Did you know that CNN tries to run JavaScript from more than 30 domains on the front page, but is functional and ad-free after enabling 2 or 3? The Add-on allows you to enable or disable specific domains serving JavaScript, and automatically save those preferences for later visits. I find that I only notice the add-on for a few days on a new device before it is tuned. After that, the only thing I notice is how slow and garbage-laden the same sites are when I'm on a computer without my setup using e.g. Chrome YMMV but I have been NoScript-ing for 2 years and won't go back by choice.
- _a_a_a_ 2y ago
  > Completely disabling JavaScript is a no-go these days Wrong. I use a browser in a VM when needed, and I don't do that very often, maybe once or twice a day. No ads, fast static text, low cpu, very safe, it's pretty damn good.
  - pennomi 2y ago
    If you need to dip into another browser once or twice every day, you’ve basically proved that you can’t in fact operate entirely without JavaScript.
    - _a_a_a_ 2y ago
      ISWYM. I operate 95% - 98% without so, close. Am very happy with it.
- brycewray 2y ago
  > Did you know that CNN tries to run JavaScript from more than 30 domains on the front page, but is functional and ad-free after enabling 2 or 3? Might try https://lite.cnn.com https://lite.cnn.com.
- schiffern 2y ago
  If you use uBlock Origin (and you should!), it can be configured to work in a similar way. NoScript does have some extra features though. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-quick-guide https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-qu... https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-hard-mode https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-hard-m...
thih9 2y ago
> The web should work without JavaScript. Says who? Perhaps popular platforms like twitter or instagram should support UX based on texting instead of requiring apps. Perhaps emails should be readable plaintext and without images. I could go on. I love all of these ideas in theory; but in practice the ship seems to have sailed - and in a different direction. I guess it's a mixture of primordial enshittification and old people reminiscing about good old days.
- ericyd 2y ago
  I added a very similar comment before I saw yours. I guess I can also look forward to being downvoted for having a different opinion.
- skydhash 2y ago
  The only time that javascript is required are when you need some element that is stateful accross data loading (maps, audio player, chat,…) or the action would return essentially the same data with a few difference (voting, autocomplete). There are also some components still missing from the web spec like carrousel (you can probably do some css wizardry) and a calendar widget. But the current state that wants us to download js files that are bigger that the epub format of War and Peace? Not essential.
  - thih9 2y ago
    > But the current state that wants us to download js files that are bigger that the epub format of War and Peace? Not essential. Absolutely essential if you want to deliver a large, extensible website (requiring teams of front end and back end devs) with modern UX in a cost efficient way.
Springtime 2y ago
With Javascript disabled the aspect that is a pet peeve isn't some broken functionality of a site (which one would expect) but when a considerable amount of sites add a blank overlay until JS and/or cookies are enabled. And not the scenario where JS is responsible for loading the content but literally when it's just an arbitrary blank viewport-encompassing element covering the already loaded content—all so the site can then add some animation and remove the overlay when they feel the content should be shown. It's ridiculous for functionality. When I overhauled a wiki for a project it similarly added such an overlay and I promptly removed it. Nothing on the wiki beside the search was functionally broken without JS yet it required both JS and cookies to be enabled before a user could view anything.
- schiffern 2y ago
  > add a blank overlay until JS and/or cookies are enabled On many sites Firefox "Reader mode" can work around this.
- rand0mx1 2y ago
  Cloudflare will block new visitors as there will be no captcha to load.
  - crtasm 2y ago
    That depends how the site is configured in Cloudflare.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  They don’t want you there, they are poorly designed sites, and you are better off leaving them.
  - olliej 2y ago
    No, JS is part of the web. You wishing it was not does not mean it isn’t. A site isn’t broken if it doesn’t work without JS anymore than it’s broken if you disable TLS or CSS or any other part of the web.
INGSOCIALITE 2y ago
i must be a nudist because every day is javascript naked day
aspenmayer 2y ago
In the same spirit as this initiative and uBlock Origin and NoScript: > Decentraleyes is a free and open-source browser extension used for local content delivery network (CDN) emulation. Its primary task is to block connections to major CDNs such as Cloudflare and Google (for privacy and anti-tracking purposes) and serve popular web libraries (such as JQuery and AngularJS) locally on the user's machine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentraleyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentraleyes https://decentraleyes.org https://decentraleyes.org And a popular fork which may be more up-to-date: https://www.localcdn.org https://www.localcdn.org And since it can’t hurt and is useful for the advanced usage and modes of uBlock Origin: The Ultimate Superuser’s Guide to uBlock Origin https://www.maketecheasier.com/ultimate-ublock-origin-superusers-guide/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/ultimate-ublock-origin-superu... which I have submitted as its own post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40105518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40105518
ericyd 2y ago
> The web should work without JavaScript. I don't agree with this, and the site provides very thin or no justification for this claim. "Should" is inherently subjective, so I will not be participating in this event.
- netsharc 2y ago
  It's like making a wrong turn and ending up in an Amish festival...
xyst 2y ago
I like the idea of it. Promotes accessibility in cases where bandwidth is limited. Or users have older devices or limited computing power. I wonder if sites using angular or react will even work without js edit: while looking this up myself, discovered a design philosophy called: Progressive Enhancement (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement) If I ever start up my own company. This will be the foundational principle for front end development
- threetonesun 2y ago
  Part of this initiative is, I’m sure, to enlighten newer members of the web community to the fact that you can build a large percentage of web pages without JavaScript being required, and that is in fact how we always did it in the past. Whether or not doing so makes business sense is a different discussion. While I philosophically agree I’m also aware a lot of people have jobs that require being part of the economy of JavaScript garbage at a global scale.
ltbarcly3 2y ago
It's actually "stop making holidays for everything to try to get attention for dumb ideas nobody cares about" day.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
xXx_uwu_xXx 2y ago
This thing I just looove to see everywhere is $blah_blah$ or \{blah_blah\} or some shite like that. At this point, I should be almost fluent in LaTeX or whatever eldritch tongue these people speak. Perhaps there is a lack of proper authoring tools for MathML? Doesn't Chrome support MathML at least partially these days? I use Firefox so I wouldn't know.
euske 2y ago
In the same spirit, we should once a year spend a day with ourselves blindfolded, or use a wheelchair to understand what is like to be a disabled person.
niutech 2y ago
As for no JS - have a look at my PHOOOS technique of out-of-order HTML streaming without JavaScript: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40070792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40070792 There is too much JS bloat on the WWW. Let's get back to pure HTML & CSS.

59 points by anste 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

draw_down 2y ago

[dead]

Raed667 2y ago

No thank you.

oneeyedpigeon 2y ago

A very worthy initiative. Unfortunately, the CMS my work mandates requires js, so this is a non-starter for me. What I may do, is run my work profile as regular, but turn off js for my non-work profile. I can complain all I like about the work CMS, but that would be fighting a losing battle.

hobs 2y ago

I have used noscript + ublock origin for almost a decade now, approving js on some sites is not a big deal and I have had zero issues with malware or popups or other garbage website. You can tell when a website is a tracker nightmare when it wont load HTML text content without javascript.

difosfor 2y ago

Next up: CSS naked day? Seriously though, I respect the ideal of using HTML as much as possible for what it's made. But the web is more than just pure content sites. And Javascript provides a lot of nice things as well.

oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
The web is more than just pure content and, yes, some of it requires JavaScript to function. But it's a lot less than sites actually allow for. We shouldn't let perfect be the enemy of much, much better than the status quo.
shiomiru 2y ago
From the website: > JS Naked Day started because we were jealous of CSS Naked Day.[0] [0]: https://css-naked-day.github.io/ https://css-naked-day.github.io/
Retr0id 2y ago
Per the article, CSS naked day was the inspiration. https://css-naked-day.github.io/ https://css-naked-day.github.io/
anste 2y ago
There are certainly web apps that could not function without JavaScript. This initiative is more of a protest to shoving functionally useless JavaScript down your throat when you browse a news site or read an article. JavaScript should progressively enhance those types of websites, and not be a strict requirement.
bee_rider 2y ago
I think they block everything for awareness. “Use a reasonable amount of JavaScript day” would not be very memorable. In actuality the right thing to do is leave JavaScript blocked by default, and then think critically about whether or not you trust a site enough to download and run a random program from it. If so, then JavaScript could be enabled.
difosfor 2y ago
Ah, haha, CSS naked day was actually first? I do have to admit that most of what I do on the web is consume content and there most JS like analytics and ads is useless to me. So I guess I might actually try NoScript for a day after all.

largbae 2y ago

Completely disabling JavaScript is a no-go these days. But Firefox+NoScript is both enlightening and refreshing. Did you know that CNN tries to run JavaScript from more than 30 domains on the front page, but is functional and ad-free after enabling 2 or 3? The Add-on allows you to enable or disable specific domains serving JavaScript, and automatically save those preferences for later visits. I find that I only notice the add-on for a few days on a new device before it is tuned. After that, the only thing I notice is how slow and garbage-laden the same sites are when I'm on a computer without my setup using e.g. Chrome YMMV but I have been NoScript-ing for 2 years and won't go back by choice.

_a_a_a_ 2y ago
> Completely disabling JavaScript is a no-go these days Wrong. I use a browser in a VM when needed, and I don't do that very often, maybe once or twice a day. No ads, fast static text, low cpu, very safe, it's pretty damn good.
- pennomi 2y ago
  If you need to dip into another browser once or twice every day, you’ve basically proved that you can’t in fact operate entirely without JavaScript.
  - _a_a_a_ 2y ago
    ISWYM. I operate 95% - 98% without so, close. Am very happy with it.
brycewray 2y ago
> Did you know that CNN tries to run JavaScript from more than 30 domains on the front page, but is functional and ad-free after enabling 2 or 3? Might try https://lite.cnn.com https://lite.cnn.com.
schiffern 2y ago
If you use uBlock Origin (and you should!), it can be configured to work in a similar way. NoScript does have some extra features though. https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-quick-guide https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-qu... https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-hard-mode https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-hard-m...

thih9 2y ago

> The web should work without JavaScript. Says who? Perhaps popular platforms like twitter or instagram should support UX based on texting instead of requiring apps. Perhaps emails should be readable plaintext and without images. I could go on. I love all of these ideas in theory; but in practice the ship seems to have sailed - and in a different direction. I guess it's a mixture of primordial enshittification and old people reminiscing about good old days.

ericyd 2y ago
I added a very similar comment before I saw yours. I guess I can also look forward to being downvoted for having a different opinion.
skydhash 2y ago
The only time that javascript is required are when you need some element that is stateful accross data loading (maps, audio player, chat,…) or the action would return essentially the same data with a few difference (voting, autocomplete). There are also some components still missing from the web spec like carrousel (you can probably do some css wizardry) and a calendar widget. But the current state that wants us to download js files that are bigger that the epub format of War and Peace? Not essential.
- thih9 2y ago
  > But the current state that wants us to download js files that are bigger that the epub format of War and Peace? Not essential. Absolutely essential if you want to deliver a large, extensible website (requiring teams of front end and back end devs) with modern UX in a cost efficient way.

Springtime 2y ago

With Javascript disabled the aspect that is a pet peeve isn't some broken functionality of a site (which one would expect) but when a considerable amount of sites add a blank overlay until JS and/or cookies are enabled. And not the scenario where JS is responsible for loading the content but literally when it's just an arbitrary blank viewport-encompassing element covering the already loaded content—all so the site can then add some animation and remove the overlay when they feel the content should be shown. It's ridiculous for functionality. When I overhauled a wiki for a project it similarly added such an overlay and I promptly removed it. Nothing on the wiki beside the search was functionally broken without JS yet it required both JS and cookies to be enabled before a user could view anything.

schiffern 2y ago
> add a blank overlay until JS and/or cookies are enabled On many sites Firefox "Reader mode" can work around this.
rand0mx1 2y ago
Cloudflare will block new visitors as there will be no captcha to load.
- crtasm 2y ago
  That depends how the site is configured in Cloudflare.
bee_rider 2y ago
They don’t want you there, they are poorly designed sites, and you are better off leaving them.
- olliej 2y ago
  No, JS is part of the web. You wishing it was not does not mean it isn’t. A site isn’t broken if it doesn’t work without JS anymore than it’s broken if you disable TLS or CSS or any other part of the web.

INGSOCIALITE 2y ago

i must be a nudist because every day is javascript naked day

aspenmayer 2y ago

In the same spirit as this initiative and uBlock Origin and NoScript: > Decentraleyes is a free and open-source browser extension used for local content delivery network (CDN) emulation. Its primary task is to block connections to major CDNs such as Cloudflare and Google (for privacy and anti-tracking purposes) and serve popular web libraries (such as JQuery and AngularJS) locally on the user's machine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentraleyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decentraleyes https://decentraleyes.org https://decentraleyes.org And a popular fork which may be more up-to-date: https://www.localcdn.org https://www.localcdn.org And since it can’t hurt and is useful for the advanced usage and modes of uBlock Origin: The Ultimate Superuser’s Guide to uBlock Origin https://www.maketecheasier.com/ultimate-ublock-origin-superusers-guide/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/ultimate-ublock-origin-superu... which I have submitted as its own post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40105518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40105518

ericyd 2y ago

> The web should work without JavaScript. I don't agree with this, and the site provides very thin or no justification for this claim. "Should" is inherently subjective, so I will not be participating in this event.

netsharc 2y ago
It's like making a wrong turn and ending up in an Amish festival...

xyst 2y ago

I like the idea of it. Promotes accessibility in cases where bandwidth is limited. Or users have older devices or limited computing power. I wonder if sites using angular or react will even work without js edit: while looking this up myself, discovered a design philosophy called: Progressive Enhancement (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_enhancement) If I ever start up my own company. This will be the foundational principle for front end development

threetonesun 2y ago
Part of this initiative is, I’m sure, to enlighten newer members of the web community to the fact that you can build a large percentage of web pages without JavaScript being required, and that is in fact how we always did it in the past. Whether or not doing so makes business sense is a different discussion. While I philosophically agree I’m also aware a lot of people have jobs that require being part of the economy of JavaScript garbage at a global scale.

ltbarcly3 2y ago

It's actually "stop making holidays for everything to try to get attention for dumb ideas nobody cares about" day.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

xXx_uwu_xXx 2y ago

This thing I just looove to see everywhere is $blah_blah$ or \{blah_blah\} or some shite like that. At this point, I should be almost fluent in LaTeX or whatever eldritch tongue these people speak. Perhaps there is a lack of proper authoring tools for MathML? Doesn't Chrome support MathML at least partially these days? I use Firefox so I wouldn't know.

euske 2y ago

In the same spirit, we should once a year spend a day with ourselves blindfolded, or use a wheelchair to understand what is like to be a disabled person.

niutech 2y ago

As for no JS - have a look at my PHOOOS technique of out-of-order HTML streaming without JavaScript: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40070792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40070792 There is too much JS bloat on the WWW. Let's get back to pure HTML & CSS.