3 ms·

It's been interesting trying to revisit Bostrom over the last few months. I'm really not a fan of cancel culture, but it does feel much more difficult to consid

It's been interesting trying to revisit Bostrom over the last few months. I'm really not a fan of cancel culture, but it does feel much more difficult to consider anything he's ever said without the context of that 'racist provocation' email that recently resurfaced, and the pre-emptive tonedeaf non-apology apology he wrote in response [0]. I know Oxford let him off the hook (it doesn't surprise me as he's a huge asset to them), but his ideas feel that much more like provocative sensationalism now, it's like they're tainted in my head. Kinda puts him in the same category as Jordan Peterson. Also, relevant discussion from a couple of days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40065862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40065862 [0]: https://nickbostrom.com/oldemail.pdf https://nickbostrom.com/oldemail.pdf

K0balt 3y ago
Idk if you read the actual letter, there doesn’t seem to be any racism in his intention, but rather a caricature of cancel culture that when taken completely out of context reads like a racist rant. It’s unfortunate that we have become so superficial that we cannot see beyond sentence fragments to see meaning. Still, it was an example of thumbing of the nose to the cancel culturista, an act of defiance that apparently wasn’t taken in stride. With the censors, It’s not so much what you say, but rather not speaking in the way that “they” want you to that brings out their ire - you can (and cacelistas often do) say the most racist drivel, but as long as it’s said using the right language, it’s acceptable, even laudable. I have come to think of this faux-left movement as being an effort more to reshape culture by pruning meaning and prohibiting discussion, a mentally lazy revolution that pretends to solve problems by hiding from them.
- boomskats 3y ago
  I did read the actual letter. Idk if you read my actual comment. Him stating "Blacks are more stupid than whites", and following it up with "I like that sentence and I think it is true", feels unnecessarily offensive, and he doesn't really address that in his apology at all. Saying hurtful things and then trying to intellectualise why they were hurtful, with an apology letter clearly aimed at your academic peers rather than those who your words would have hurt, is not about censorship. It's about not being a dick.
  - K0balt 3y ago
    Hmm, I wonder if we read the same letter, since you are leaving the salient parts out. He said some stupid things, as an example of saying stupid things. It was reprehensible, IMO, and exhibited very poor judgment, but his full statement makes it clear his intention was not to imply that one race is genetically superior to another, but rather to say that poor nutrition and socioeconomic conditions lead to suboptimal outcomes and measurable differences in cognitive health. I think that’s a plausible hypothesis, and I think that poor nutrition and socioeconomic conditions are something that a wealthy society should probably be trying to address. I also think that he used some very portly chosen words to make an unimportant, belligerent point… and then that point was roundly made for him by everyone deciding that he must be a racist. And maybe he is, I don’t know, but the contents of that particular letter don’t say that to me, even as objectionable as the parts that you brought out of the full context certainly are. As for not being a dick, he absolutely should be called out for saying dickish, petulant things. But that’s not what happened.
- skulk 3y ago
  "I think you, K0balt, are a very poor quality person." I like that sentence. I think it's true. But come on, I would never leave a comment starting like that on HN, it would go against the guidelines and be plain rude.
  - K0balt 3y ago
    lol. I’m not really sure that’s apples to apples, but if it is close then I would propose that the right thing to follow that up with would be a proper apology for your offensive language. Obviously mr bozo didn’t do that, which makes him either clueless or kind of a dick, and he absolutely should be called out for that. But that’s not what happened.
    - skulk 3y ago
      well, yeah, sorry. I was just trying to make a point in the sharpest way possible.
- alt0_ 3y ago
  TBH even uttering the words "cancel culture" on the internet nowadays is enough to make me physically cringe.
  - K0balt 3y ago
    Yeah, it’s a lazy shorthand for a plethora of societal ills. It is pretty cringeworthy, I have to concur.
ImHereToVote 3y ago
I think we should be more critical of intellectuals that spout off things that are obviously and offensively mal-informative.

K0balt 3y ago

Idk if you read the actual letter, there doesn’t seem to be any racism in his intention, but rather a caricature of cancel culture that when taken completely out of context reads like a racist rant. It’s unfortunate that we have become so superficial that we cannot see beyond sentence fragments to see meaning. Still, it was an example of thumbing of the nose to the cancel culturista, an act of defiance that apparently wasn’t taken in stride. With the censors, It’s not so much what you say, but rather not speaking in the way that “they” want you to that brings out their ire - you can (and cacelistas often do) say the most racist drivel, but as long as it’s said using the right language, it’s acceptable, even laudable. I have come to think of this faux-left movement as being an effort more to reshape culture by pruning meaning and prohibiting discussion, a mentally lazy revolution that pretends to solve problems by hiding from them.

boomskats 3y ago
I did read the actual letter. Idk if you read my actual comment. Him stating "Blacks are more stupid than whites", and following it up with "I like that sentence and I think it is true", feels unnecessarily offensive, and he doesn't really address that in his apology at all. Saying hurtful things and then trying to intellectualise why they were hurtful, with an apology letter clearly aimed at your academic peers rather than those who your words would have hurt, is not about censorship. It's about not being a dick.
- K0balt 3y ago
  Hmm, I wonder if we read the same letter, since you are leaving the salient parts out. He said some stupid things, as an example of saying stupid things. It was reprehensible, IMO, and exhibited very poor judgment, but his full statement makes it clear his intention was not to imply that one race is genetically superior to another, but rather to say that poor nutrition and socioeconomic conditions lead to suboptimal outcomes and measurable differences in cognitive health. I think that’s a plausible hypothesis, and I think that poor nutrition and socioeconomic conditions are something that a wealthy society should probably be trying to address. I also think that he used some very portly chosen words to make an unimportant, belligerent point… and then that point was roundly made for him by everyone deciding that he must be a racist. And maybe he is, I don’t know, but the contents of that particular letter don’t say that to me, even as objectionable as the parts that you brought out of the full context certainly are. As for not being a dick, he absolutely should be called out for saying dickish, petulant things. But that’s not what happened.
skulk 3y ago
"I think you, K0balt, are a very poor quality person." I like that sentence. I think it's true. But come on, I would never leave a comment starting like that on HN, it would go against the guidelines and be plain rude.
- K0balt 3y ago
  lol. I’m not really sure that’s apples to apples, but if it is close then I would propose that the right thing to follow that up with would be a proper apology for your offensive language. Obviously mr bozo didn’t do that, which makes him either clueless or kind of a dick, and he absolutely should be called out for that. But that’s not what happened.
  - skulk 3y ago
    well, yeah, sorry. I was just trying to make a point in the sharpest way possible.
alt0_ 3y ago
TBH even uttering the words "cancel culture" on the internet nowadays is enough to make me physically cringe.
- K0balt 3y ago
  Yeah, it’s a lazy shorthand for a plethora of societal ills. It is pretty cringeworthy, I have to concur.

ImHereToVote 3y ago

I think we should be more critical of intellectuals that spout off things that are obviously and offensively mal-informative.