6 ms·

Why I'm Leaving New York City [video]

33 points by keepamovin 3y ago

greenSunglass 3y ago
Some friends are moving from SF to NYC, safety being one of the reason. How safe SF is compared to NYC?
- greenavocado 3y ago
  https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=policeactivity+nypd https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=policeactivity+ny...
- tohnjitor 3y ago
  Your friends can check for themselves. https://crimegrade.org/crime-by-zip-code/ https://crimegrade.org/crime-by-zip-code/
  - jprete 3y ago
    That site's information doesn't track with my direct experience of the area. I'm also suspicious that the entire purpose of the site is to advertise home security systems since it's a prominent entry in the site map. Also, they mention their maps are AI-generated from other data sources; this is strange and unusual for statistical views and doesn't increase my confidence either.
  - aworks 3y ago
    For zip code 94025 (Menlo Park), the Meta/Facebook campus near the bay gets a crime grade of F. I can think of several possible reasons for this... https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-94025/ https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-94025/
- m_ke 3y ago
  New York is the safest that it has ever been and has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Do you have some data on that? Wikipedia shows that out of the top 100 US cities NYC is roughly in the middle for violent crime rate. Pretty much any crime map is showing it as a hot spot.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - wfleming 3y ago
      Is this the list you were looking at [0]? NY is 20/100 for murder, 16/100 for rape, 40/100 for robbery (where 1 is safest). Below the national average for murder & rape according to [1] (above it for robbery, which isn’t great, but at 40/100 I’m guessing that robbery overall is more prevalent in cities and NY is still doing okay compared to other cities.) Not sure what maps you’re looking at either, but visualizations of stuff like this sometimes mess up if they aren’t accounting for pop density well. NY is very big and very dense, over twice as many people as the next biggest (LA) and twice as dense as the next densest big (>1M people) city (Chicago). [2] (Note these are actual city boundaries comparisons, not metro area, which I believe is consistent with the crime stats used.) I think the person you responded to is still technically wrong that “NY is the safest it’s ever been”. Crime rose nationally around 2020 and I think it’s only this year we’re starting to see pre-COVID crime levels again a lot of places. I think they were probably thinking of in comparison to the bad old days of the 70s, when NY was decidedly unsafe. NY has problems like everywhere else. And with >8M people terrible things that make the news will happen every day even at below-average crime rates. But put in the perspective of large urban dense cities I feel like the city is kinda okay from a crime perspective. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities... [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
      - giantg2 3y ago
        Yes, I was looking at the violent crime rate subtotal from your first link which places it at 42/100 at a rate of around 539 per 100k. The national average is around 381 per 100k. Being significantly above thw national average and close to the middle of the top 100 cities, does not seem like it "has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country" to me. These are based on rates, so population isn't a direct factor and it will still show as a hotspot on any national or state level map since it's significantly higher than average and surrounding area.
- Archelaos 3y ago
  There are Wikipedia articles on this: - "Crime in San Francisco": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco - "Crime in New York City": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City The quoted numbers in the articles are from different years and somewhat outdated, though (2019 and 2022, respectively). For violent crimes the total rates are more or less the same, with some differences in the details (SF has considerably more robberies and NY considerably more aggravated assaults) . But for property crimes, the totel rate for SF is more than twice as high as for NY.
- keepamovin 3y ago
  OMG shouldn't they be moving to Florida in that case!!! :) hahaha
user3939382 3y ago
My experience: So many rats I accidentally kicked one while casually walking once. You see them literally everywhere. In Manhattan regularly you walk around huge mountains of stinking garbage bags. Constant noise $16/gallon for organic milk at the grocery store Streets with pot holes absolutely everywhere Many subway stations that feel like you’re descending into a medieval dungeon. As you wait for the train you get to look at the track bed covered in mold, slime, and scurrying mice. Actually clinically insane people laughing and talking to themselves everywhere, you get to be right next to them all the time (guess we didn’t need those clinics we shut down?) I am so thankful every day that I got out of there.
- sys_64738 3y ago
  Trader Joe prices in Manhattan are pretty reasonable.
- mycologos 3y ago
  I don't know why there are all these ex-NYC residents who all but cross themselves and shudder when remembering their time there and then it turns out that they never tried to live anywhere other than the busiest parts of Manhattan or, apparently, shop at anything other than bodegas. (I'm with you on the garbage and crazy people, though.)
- dr_ 3y ago
  Meh. There aren’t so many rats and now business are required to containerize trash which will reduce rats. Soon all residents will have to as well. There aren’t any more potholes than you’d find in any city that goes thru something called Winter Milk is not $16/gallon (and don’t post some random link at one spot where it is). I don’t buy organic, a regular gallon is about the same at Whole Foods as at an aldi in NJ. Organic probably double. Congestion pricing will fund the MTA to improve on its system. The 2nd avenue line is quite nice.
  - user3939382 3y ago
    I don’t want to get into a tit for tat but yes the milk is $16, at a regular grocery store. It’s on 81st and 1st you’re welcome to go visit it.
msoad 3y ago
Summary of 10 minutes video a long-time Manhattan resident shares his reasons for departing from the city after 20 years. He emphasizes that his concerns extend beyond the high cost of living, focusing instead on the exorbitant taxes, which amounted to over 50% of his income. The speaker voices alarm over the city's spending priorities, particularly regarding public safety. He recounts personal experiences of dangerous encounters, such as a half-naked man attacking the air and a friend being sucker-punched. The speaker also criticizes the city's inefficient subway system, citing the $11 billion East Side Access Project as an example of mismanaged funds. He compares this cost to the Shanghai Metro, which could construct significantly more for the same amount. The speaker also laments the negative impact of the city's government, including endless construction projects that have ruined neighborhoods and an ineffective free daycare program for three-year-olds. These issues, along with the loss of affordability and quality of life, have led to a mass exodus from New York City, with half a million residents leaving since 2020. Despite his attachment to the city, the speaker has moved to New Jersey and reports an improved quality of life and better-run institutions.
- dhammack 3y ago
  Was this summary generated by a LLM?
  - msoad 3y ago
    yes.
    - boweruk 3y ago
      it would be polite to disclose this in your original post (although it was fairly obvious anyway)
- sys_64738 3y ago
  I wouldn't have thought moving to NJ would improve your quality of life. NJ is a very angry state.
  - 3y ago
shmatt 3y ago
These takes are always comical to me, because I really wish they would put some downward pressure on rents While rents in SF crash, rents in NYC seem to reach a new ATH every month. The newest addition is how popular bidding wars have become. If all it used to take a few years ago was being the first person with good credit to apply, now you’re expected to give your “best and last” rent offer, maybe offer the broker some extra cash as well So, yeah, there are YouTube videos about crossing the street with your kid because a shirtless man was yelling, and then there is reality of other families outbidding each other. There’s obviously more than enough people to fill all the available apartments, so I don’t see the reason it matters if one person leaves, there are 5 people bidding on paying more for their same apartment New York City’s Vacancy Rate Reaches Historic Low of 1.4 Percent https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/news/007-24/new-york-city-s-vacancy-rate-reaches-historic-low-1-4-percent-demanding-urgent-action-new https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/news/007-24/new-york-city-s-vac...
- alecco 3y ago
  It's simple. For every high income person who moves out many more low-income people move in. Meanwhile, those who stick around are ready to shell out more cash to upgrade to a safer area of the city. It's a feedback loop.
  - jinushaun 3y ago
    That’s the thing people don’t realize about NYC. For everyone who complains about the high cost of living and move out, there are people making less than half or a quarter of what they are making moving in. Everyday. This puts a price ceiling on the cost of living. Compare that with SF and Seattle where every new resident makes more money than the last and, IMO, the resulting cost of living is much higher.
eatonphil 3y ago
There's more to NYC than downtown Manhattan. For example, roughly 1000sqft 2BR in Forest Hills go for around $3k/mo. A 30 minute subway ride from Times Square. Contrast that with the $4k/mo studio price (which is believable) OP says you pay for in downtown Manhattan.
- sys_64738 3y ago
  Anybody living in Manhattan views Queens as "Queens" and not NYC.
  - llamaimperative 3y ago
    I’ve actually only ever heard people from the outer boroughs refer to Manhattan as “the city” or “NYC” or similar.
    - sys_64738 3y ago
      The closer you get to the city then the more familiar people are with the city. So you effectively "zoom in".
- bradleyjg 3y ago
  True. But why pay 4% of income to live in forest hills when you can live in great neck and be in manhattan in about the same amount of time?
  - eatonphil 3y ago
    The LIRR is good yes but there seems to be extremely few apartments available for rent in Nassau County. Or maybe it's just that I always filter by Allows Pets, I'm not sure. If it were solely up to me I'd be fine living in Bayside/Little Neck, taking the LIRR, for the great Korean and Chinese food and the parks. But my wife prefers to stay where the subway is.
    - bradleyjg 3y ago
dr_ 3y ago
I raise a family in NYC and have watched some of the authors prior videos. He’s correct in pointing out the issues with the mental health crisis, which results in mentally ill people roaming the streets and subway. Taking our kids on the subway, it’s not something you’d engage with on a regular basis, but it’s there. On the other hand, we are happy with our kids schools and enjoy our social engagements in the city, dining out, etc. the preK bit sucks, they need to do a better job there (although I know many parents with kids in preK programs) and the migrant situation definitely needs to be better addressed. I guess it comes down to how much pain you are willing to withstand.
- afavour 3y ago
  As another parent in NYC I agree with you. We take the subway a lot and 90% of our trips are absolutely fine but at times you will pass a mentally ill person and it can definitely put you on edge. But to my mind it’s akin to driving with my kids in the suburbs and having a near miss with a reckless driver. I’ve never felt truly unsafe though, and for us the perks of living here outweigh the negatives. That can always change though. Free city-funded Pre-K is a big deal for parents and is a great use of tax dollars but if you don’t have kids you won’t be aware of it. So it’s not like the NYC gov can’t do good things. I just wish it did more.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
JojoFatsani 3y ago
People have been outgrowing the city and moving to the suburbs forever. Content creator isn’t special. Citation: “Who needs a house out in Hackensack ack ack ack ack ack?”
40104596 3y ago
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33 points by keepamovin 3y ago

greenSunglass 3y ago

Some friends are moving from SF to NYC, safety being one of the reason. How safe SF is compared to NYC?

greenavocado 3y ago
https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=policeactivity+nypd https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=policeactivity+ny...
tohnjitor 3y ago
Your friends can check for themselves. https://crimegrade.org/crime-by-zip-code/ https://crimegrade.org/crime-by-zip-code/
- jprete 3y ago
  That site's information doesn't track with my direct experience of the area. I'm also suspicious that the entire purpose of the site is to advertise home security systems since it's a prominent entry in the site map. Also, they mention their maps are AI-generated from other data sources; this is strange and unusual for statistical views and doesn't increase my confidence either.
- aworks 3y ago
  For zip code 94025 (Menlo Park), the Meta/Facebook campus near the bay gets a crime grade of F. I can think of several possible reasons for this... https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-94025/ https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-94025/
m_ke 3y ago
New York is the safest that it has ever been and has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country.
- giantg2 3y ago
  Do you have some data on that? Wikipedia shows that out of the top 100 US cities NYC is roughly in the middle for violent crime rate. Pretty much any crime map is showing it as a hot spot.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - wfleming 3y ago
    Is this the list you were looking at [0]? NY is 20/100 for murder, 16/100 for rape, 40/100 for robbery (where 1 is safest). Below the national average for murder & rape according to [1] (above it for robbery, which isn’t great, but at 40/100 I’m guessing that robbery overall is more prevalent in cities and NY is still doing okay compared to other cities.) Not sure what maps you’re looking at either, but visualizations of stuff like this sometimes mess up if they aren’t accounting for pop density well. NY is very big and very dense, over twice as many people as the next biggest (LA) and twice as dense as the next densest big (>1M people) city (Chicago). [2] (Note these are actual city boundaries comparisons, not metro area, which I believe is consistent with the crime stats used.) I think the person you responded to is still technically wrong that “NY is the safest it’s ever been”. Crime rose nationally around 2020 and I think it’s only this year we’re starting to see pre-COVID crime levels again a lot of places. I think they were probably thinking of in comparison to the bad old days of the 70s, when NY was decidedly unsafe. NY has problems like everywhere else. And with >8M people terrible things that make the news will happen every day even at below-average crime rates. But put in the perspective of large urban dense cities I feel like the city is kinda okay from a crime perspective. [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities... [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States [2]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities...
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Yes, I was looking at the violent crime rate subtotal from your first link which places it at 42/100 at a rate of around 539 per 100k. The national average is around 381 per 100k. Being significantly above thw national average and close to the middle of the top 100 cities, does not seem like it "has one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country" to me. These are based on rates, so population isn't a direct factor and it will still show as a hotspot on any national or state level map since it's significantly higher than average and surrounding area.
Archelaos 3y ago
There are Wikipedia articles on this: - "Crime in San Francisco": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_San_Francisco - "Crime in New York City": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City The quoted numbers in the articles are from different years and somewhat outdated, though (2019 and 2022, respectively). For violent crimes the total rates are more or less the same, with some differences in the details (SF has considerably more robberies and NY considerably more aggravated assaults) . But for property crimes, the totel rate for SF is more than twice as high as for NY.
keepamovin 3y ago
OMG shouldn't they be moving to Florida in that case!!! :) hahaha

user3939382 3y ago

My experience: So many rats I accidentally kicked one while casually walking once. You see them literally everywhere. In Manhattan regularly you walk around huge mountains of stinking garbage bags. Constant noise $16/gallon for organic milk at the grocery store Streets with pot holes absolutely everywhere Many subway stations that feel like you’re descending into a medieval dungeon. As you wait for the train you get to look at the track bed covered in mold, slime, and scurrying mice. Actually clinically insane people laughing and talking to themselves everywhere, you get to be right next to them all the time (guess we didn’t need those clinics we shut down?) I am so thankful every day that I got out of there.

sys_64738 3y ago
Trader Joe prices in Manhattan are pretty reasonable.
mycologos 3y ago
I don't know why there are all these ex-NYC residents who all but cross themselves and shudder when remembering their time there and then it turns out that they never tried to live anywhere other than the busiest parts of Manhattan or, apparently, shop at anything other than bodegas. (I'm with you on the garbage and crazy people, though.)
dr_ 3y ago
Meh. There aren’t so many rats and now business are required to containerize trash which will reduce rats. Soon all residents will have to as well. There aren’t any more potholes than you’d find in any city that goes thru something called Winter Milk is not $16/gallon (and don’t post some random link at one spot where it is). I don’t buy organic, a regular gallon is about the same at Whole Foods as at an aldi in NJ. Organic probably double. Congestion pricing will fund the MTA to improve on its system. The 2nd avenue line is quite nice.
- user3939382 3y ago
  I don’t want to get into a tit for tat but yes the milk is $16, at a regular grocery store. It’s on 81st and 1st you’re welcome to go visit it.

msoad 3y ago

Summary of 10 minutes video a long-time Manhattan resident shares his reasons for departing from the city after 20 years. He emphasizes that his concerns extend beyond the high cost of living, focusing instead on the exorbitant taxes, which amounted to over 50% of his income. The speaker voices alarm over the city's spending priorities, particularly regarding public safety. He recounts personal experiences of dangerous encounters, such as a half-naked man attacking the air and a friend being sucker-punched. The speaker also criticizes the city's inefficient subway system, citing the $11 billion East Side Access Project as an example of mismanaged funds. He compares this cost to the Shanghai Metro, which could construct significantly more for the same amount. The speaker also laments the negative impact of the city's government, including endless construction projects that have ruined neighborhoods and an ineffective free daycare program for three-year-olds. These issues, along with the loss of affordability and quality of life, have led to a mass exodus from New York City, with half a million residents leaving since 2020. Despite his attachment to the city, the speaker has moved to New Jersey and reports an improved quality of life and better-run institutions.

dhammack 3y ago
Was this summary generated by a LLM?
- msoad 3y ago
  yes.
  - boweruk 3y ago
    it would be polite to disclose this in your original post (although it was fairly obvious anyway)
sys_64738 3y ago
I wouldn't have thought moving to NJ would improve your quality of life. NJ is a very angry state.
- 3y ago

shmatt 3y ago

These takes are always comical to me, because I really wish they would put some downward pressure on rents While rents in SF crash, rents in NYC seem to reach a new ATH every month. The newest addition is how popular bidding wars have become. If all it used to take a few years ago was being the first person with good credit to apply, now you’re expected to give your “best and last” rent offer, maybe offer the broker some extra cash as well So, yeah, there are YouTube videos about crossing the street with your kid because a shirtless man was yelling, and then there is reality of other families outbidding each other. There’s obviously more than enough people to fill all the available apartments, so I don’t see the reason it matters if one person leaves, there are 5 people bidding on paying more for their same apartment New York City’s Vacancy Rate Reaches Historic Low of 1.4 Percent https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/news/007-24/new-york-city-s-vacancy-rate-reaches-historic-low-1-4-percent-demanding-urgent-action-new https://www.nyc.gov/site/hpd/news/007-24/new-york-city-s-vac...

alecco 3y ago
It's simple. For every high income person who moves out many more low-income people move in. Meanwhile, those who stick around are ready to shell out more cash to upgrade to a safer area of the city. It's a feedback loop.
- jinushaun 3y ago
  That’s the thing people don’t realize about NYC. For everyone who complains about the high cost of living and move out, there are people making less than half or a quarter of what they are making moving in. Everyday. This puts a price ceiling on the cost of living. Compare that with SF and Seattle where every new resident makes more money than the last and, IMO, the resulting cost of living is much higher.

eatonphil 3y ago

There's more to NYC than downtown Manhattan. For example, roughly 1000sqft 2BR in Forest Hills go for around $3k/mo. A 30 minute subway ride from Times Square. Contrast that with the $4k/mo studio price (which is believable) OP says you pay for in downtown Manhattan.

sys_64738 3y ago
Anybody living in Manhattan views Queens as "Queens" and not NYC.
- llamaimperative 3y ago
  I’ve actually only ever heard people from the outer boroughs refer to Manhattan as “the city” or “NYC” or similar.
  - sys_64738 3y ago
    The closer you get to the city then the more familiar people are with the city. So you effectively "zoom in".
bradleyjg 3y ago
True. But why pay 4% of income to live in forest hills when you can live in great neck and be in manhattan in about the same amount of time?
- eatonphil 3y ago
  The LIRR is good yes but there seems to be extremely few apartments available for rent in Nassau County. Or maybe it's just that I always filter by Allows Pets, I'm not sure. If it were solely up to me I'd be fine living in Bayside/Little Neck, taking the LIRR, for the great Korean and Chinese food and the parks. But my wife prefers to stay where the subway is.
  - bradleyjg 3y ago

dr_ 3y ago

I raise a family in NYC and have watched some of the authors prior videos. He’s correct in pointing out the issues with the mental health crisis, which results in mentally ill people roaming the streets and subway. Taking our kids on the subway, it’s not something you’d engage with on a regular basis, but it’s there. On the other hand, we are happy with our kids schools and enjoy our social engagements in the city, dining out, etc. the preK bit sucks, they need to do a better job there (although I know many parents with kids in preK programs) and the migrant situation definitely needs to be better addressed. I guess it comes down to how much pain you are willing to withstand.

afavour 3y ago
As another parent in NYC I agree with you. We take the subway a lot and 90% of our trips are absolutely fine but at times you will pass a mentally ill person and it can definitely put you on edge. But to my mind it’s akin to driving with my kids in the suburbs and having a near miss with a reckless driver. I’ve never felt truly unsafe though, and for us the perks of living here outweigh the negatives. That can always change though. Free city-funded Pre-K is a big deal for parents and is a great use of tax dollars but if you don’t have kids you won’t be aware of it. So it’s not like the NYC gov can’t do good things. I just wish it did more.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

JojoFatsani 3y ago

People have been outgrowing the city and moving to the suburbs forever. Content creator isn’t special. Citation: “Who needs a house out in Hackensack ack ack ack ack ack?”

40104596 3y ago

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