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Europe certainly has way better social safety nets, so that really support GP’s call to provide basic support to all people in the USA. That’s probably not the

Europe certainly has way better social safety nets, so that really support GP’s call to provide basic support to all people in the USA. That’s probably not the only issue here but it’s a big one.

constantcrying 3y ago
Germany has legally guaranteed housing, the state will cover your rent, electricity, water and food. Yet homeless people still roam the streets and they have encampment under bridges or in subway stations. Even maximalists safety nets don't resolve homelessness.
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  It may be semantics, but I'd call that solved homelessness with another problem remaining I don't think zero is realistic. Roaming is flexible, we talking Europe or Texas intersection? Obviously I kid, that's loaded.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    How is people living under bridges and living off begging and collecting bottles "solved homelessness"?
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      They clearly chose to not take advantage, that's the information I have to work off of in this So is homelessness the problem, or the most visible symptom? My 'answer' is one final question: how is this not a mental health problem, among probably others? (Clerical, procedural, etc) I'm rambling now, but we can throw stones at people or try to help. Perfect, better, enemies Politics and such turn everything into an xy problem. The homeless that remain aren't the ones we'd see if nothing happens. Hell, maybe they don't see a problem. That's not really even our place to say. Nobody wins in a society. That's the idea, in a way. Edit: the simplest answer is that every system has bad-faith participation. The ones who want a home can get one, it's 'solved', except the fringe remains... the holdouts There's a lot of room for study here. It isn't logical, and yet. Perhaps we're "solving" the wrong thing.
      - constantcrying 3y ago
        Yes, exactly. Homelessness is to a large extent mental illness, specifical mental illness so severe that it alienates everyone around you. Blaming homelessness on a lack of social funding is just severely misinformed. But it is a very pleasant lie, because you can then imagine that a solution actually exists "if only...".
        TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        What are the homelessness rates between Germany and the US? Germany has good publicly funded medical care, schools, and housing. It may well be that lack of US investment in the same is in large part responsible for the I suspect huge differences between the two. You can look at Germany and say “they didn’t completely solve the problem so we shouldn’t try anything they are doing” or you can recognize the huge strides their efforts have made towards this complex issue, and consider how we might do the same.
        constantcrying 2y ago
        I was extremely surprised looking at the numbers. Apparently Germany has more homelessness people than the US in absolute terms. Which is around 4 times the prevalence in relative terms. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Germany And: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_S... the statistics section I don't know whether I am just comparing the wrong numbers or whether they count differently. But apparently Germany has much, much more homeless people. Even the amount of sheltered people, is roughly the same in absolute terms.
- TaylorAlexander 3y ago
  As I said, it’s probably not the only issue but it’s a big one. As the comment I originally replied to said, Europe has homeless but the rates are much lower. Legally guaranteed housing would I think pretty clearly make a huge difference in the US. You have to do it well though. In San Francisco we have homeless shelters that are so clearly alienating that people choose not to go. If you wouldn’t accept the housing we’re offering to others then it might not be a suitable solution. But if the homeless rates are much lower in Germany than in the US, it seems things like guaranteed housing probably have a lot to do with that.
  - constantcrying 2y ago
    >Europe has homeless but the rates are much lower. Do you have evidence for that? In a comment below I listed the numbers for Germany and the US. Apparently Germany has a much bigger problem. >Legally guaranteed housing would I think pretty clearly make a huge difference in the US. Why? It does not put Germany above the US, in relative numbers Germany is 4x worse. Even the ratio of homeless and homeless sheltered is the same.

constantcrying 3y ago

Germany has legally guaranteed housing, the state will cover your rent, electricity, water and food. Yet homeless people still roam the streets and they have encampment under bridges or in subway stations. Even maximalists safety nets don't resolve homelessness.

bravetraveler 3y ago
It may be semantics, but I'd call that solved homelessness with another problem remaining I don't think zero is realistic. Roaming is flexible, we talking Europe or Texas intersection? Obviously I kid, that's loaded.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  How is people living under bridges and living off begging and collecting bottles "solved homelessness"?
  - bravetraveler 3y ago
    They clearly chose to not take advantage, that's the information I have to work off of in this So is homelessness the problem, or the most visible symptom? My 'answer' is one final question: how is this not a mental health problem, among probably others? (Clerical, procedural, etc) I'm rambling now, but we can throw stones at people or try to help. Perfect, better, enemies Politics and such turn everything into an xy problem. The homeless that remain aren't the ones we'd see if nothing happens. Hell, maybe they don't see a problem. That's not really even our place to say. Nobody wins in a society. That's the idea, in a way. Edit: the simplest answer is that every system has bad-faith participation. The ones who want a home can get one, it's 'solved', except the fringe remains... the holdouts There's a lot of room for study here. It isn't logical, and yet. Perhaps we're "solving" the wrong thing.
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      Yes, exactly. Homelessness is to a large extent mental illness, specifical mental illness so severe that it alienates everyone around you. Blaming homelessness on a lack of social funding is just severely misinformed. But it is a very pleasant lie, because you can then imagine that a solution actually exists "if only...".
      - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        What are the homelessness rates between Germany and the US? Germany has good publicly funded medical care, schools, and housing. It may well be that lack of US investment in the same is in large part responsible for the I suspect huge differences between the two. You can look at Germany and say “they didn’t completely solve the problem so we shouldn’t try anything they are doing” or you can recognize the huge strides their efforts have made towards this complex issue, and consider how we might do the same.
        constantcrying 2y ago
        I was extremely surprised looking at the numbers. Apparently Germany has more homelessness people than the US in absolute terms. Which is around 4 times the prevalence in relative terms. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Germany https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Germany And: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_S... the statistics section I don't know whether I am just comparing the wrong numbers or whether they count differently. But apparently Germany has much, much more homeless people. Even the amount of sheltered people, is roughly the same in absolute terms.
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
As I said, it’s probably not the only issue but it’s a big one. As the comment I originally replied to said, Europe has homeless but the rates are much lower. Legally guaranteed housing would I think pretty clearly make a huge difference in the US. You have to do it well though. In San Francisco we have homeless shelters that are so clearly alienating that people choose not to go. If you wouldn’t accept the housing we’re offering to others then it might not be a suitable solution. But if the homeless rates are much lower in Germany than in the US, it seems things like guaranteed housing probably have a lot to do with that.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >Europe has homeless but the rates are much lower. Do you have evidence for that? In a comment below I listed the numbers for Germany and the US. Apparently Germany has a much bigger problem. >Legally guaranteed housing would I think pretty clearly make a huge difference in the US. Why? It does not put Germany above the US, in relative numbers Germany is 4x worse. Even the ratio of homeless and homeless sheltered is the same.