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You might not want to use your fingertip to unlock your phone
- BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 2y agoSame reason I don't use facial recognition either.
- RankingMember 2y agofwiw FaceID requires your attention by default (unless you turn that off), so you have to be looking at it to unlock keeping your eyes closed or even just looking away should thwart any forced attempts.
- dylan604 2y agoExcept it will open when I have sunglasses on even with attention required
- al_borland 2y agoIf you think you're about to enter a situation where this could be an outcome, for an iPhone, mash the side button, or hold the side button and volume up for a couple seconds to bring up the 'slide to turn off' screen. That will disable the biometric unlock and the passcode is needed to get back in. Of course, it's sad it has to come to this, as this is effectively a warrantless search.
- janalsncm 2y agoIt’s kind of silly that the law draws a distinction between face, thumbprint, and passcode. The purpose of any of those authentication mechanisms is to prevent unauthorized parties from reading your phone. Yes, a passcode is compelled information, but from the perspective of the phone so is a thumbprint or a face scan. On the other hand, if accessing the phone is legal, then it also shouldn’t matter what the particular form of authentication is. I’m not sure how much it matters that the suspect was on parole though.
- Jare 2y agoThey can't force you to volunteer information out of your brain, that's where it ends. They can do stuff with your body: restrain it, put it in cars and chairs and cells, take your fingerprint. Essentially, they can do anything that they could do if you were unconscious. This guy's parole terms included his phone could be searched so no need for a new warrant to search it.
- Repulsion9513 2y agoJust because they were allowed to take fingerprints when fingerprints were only useful for establishing identity, does not mean they should be allowed to use a fingerprint to work around other restrictions.
- Jare 2y agoMaybe they shouldn't (I'm not quite sure myself), but the arguments for that seem to me completely separate from any "self incrimination" angle. I frankly can't find a difference between the passkey being your fingerprint and, for example, the passkey being written with a pen on your finger's skin or a postit on your pocket.
- Jerrrry 2y agoIf your password is written down, then it is fair game for seizure. If your password must be divulged from you with forced complicity, then the complicity is self-incriminating; the constitution forbids this. As an actual sidestep, you could be legally obliged to provide your password to a third-party computer; the current legal hiccup (although not in issue in practice) is to make your password itself incriminating. (hypothetically in minecraft)
- k310 2y agoPowering down was made easy to defeat biometric ID. Hold buttons on both sides of newer phones. Passcode is required to unlock. Passcodes are vulnerable to shoulder surfers, and every now and then iOS will demand one for chuckles. For me, this only happens in crowded stores.
- john_the_writer 2y agoMy iphone code is 10 characters long. Just use your grand-mothers phone number as a passcode, complete with the long 1-areacode, and shoulder surfers would be hard pressed.
- ranger_danger 2y agoso set it to a thing that three letter agencies are most likely to know already?
- selcuka 2y agoYou have worse things to worry about if a three letter agency is after you. This is for the regular police, and they won't even bother.
- k310 2y agoMy grandmother passed away in the 60's. I still remember her number, and three others from those days. All would serve as passcodes, custom numeric but not custom alphanumeric. Hope that shoulder surfers don't have great memories or video. Bodycams?
- ozim 2y agoThere’s cameras everywhere, it’s not going to be someone breathing on your neck anymore.
- walterbell 2y ago> Passcodes are vulnerable to shoulder surfers And countless cameras with frame-by-frame playback. Linux: print * to hide password keystrokes BSD: print * to hide password keystrokes Windows: print * to hide password keystrokes Apple iOS: E N L A R G E and INVERT password keystrokes What do stock Android and Graphene show during password entry?
- john_the_writer 2y agoThe phone should have two fingerprint sets. One will unlock, one will super lock. User your left finger for super locking, and right for unlock. then when the cops mash your thumb it super locks it, and after that mashing won't work.
- vsnf 2y agoUntil they catch on to this dual functionality and charge you with obstructing an investigation.
- Terr_ 2y agoYou mean something that would actually hold up in a court of law? Can you expand on the what those literal charges would be, and what legal criteria has been met? I'm skeptical because that kind of lockout has perfectly innocent applications, the same way that my laptop might throttle password attempts after too many failures.
- kevincox 2y agoHow did you obstruct? The cop put your finger on the phone and you configured this before there was an investigation.
- Terr_ 2y agoAlso, police also cannot demand that you tell them which finger is the "correct" one, for the same reasons they can't demand that you tell them the "correct" password. In both cases the question can be considered forcing you to admit ownership of some evidence, and thus (unconstitutionally) forcing you to testify against yourself.
- postmodest 2y agoExcept now the cops know that 1) this is indeed your phone and 2) you have just tampered with evidence and 3) that evidence is juicy
- ygra 2y ago
- ec109685 2y agoCan the police force you to open your eyes for FaceID? If not, you can enable that setting and it’d lock the phone.
- noodlesUK 2y agoLegally I can’t imagine that it’s any different, but it is certainly more difficult on a practical level.
- raphman 2y agoI'd argue it's easier to trick you looking into the phone's camera than get you to unlock it with your finger. "Hey, look, is this your phone? Oh, thanks for unlocking it for us."
- rgbrenner 2y agoThis has been the case for a long time (predating cell phones).. and it applies to any biometrics. If the information they need isn't secured inside your brain, there's no 5th amendment question. SCOTUS already ruled in Riley v California that you need a warrant to search a cell phone. So that answers the 4th amendment question. It doesn't apply in this case because he was on parole. This case changes nothing.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoThis was a felon on parole. He doesn't retain his full rights. The warrantless search of his home would be far more problematic if he wasn't already subject to supervision.
- mdekkers 2y agoReferring to people as “felons” is such a terrible and dehumanising practice.
- nathanaldensr 2y agoPlease allow us to use common language without gatekeeping.
- mdekkers 2y agoPlease engage on a substantive level. I look forward to learning about the positive aspects of using “felon” to refer to a person.
- thrill 2y agoClarity in meaning.
- exe34 2y agoPrecision.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- quartesixte 2y agoEstablishment of proper contexts and applicable related terminology. "Felon" allows everyone to know what "node" of the vocab network you just jumped into.
- 2y ago
- ghusto 2y agoFace ID for the win :) Good luck using the same powers to force people into not keeping one eye closed.
- Ylpertnodi 2y agoWasn't that solved in 'a clockwork orange'?
- cuu508 2y agoDon't underestimate a motivated police officer
- mdp2021 2y agoAside: have you noticed > assault with a deadly weapon on a peace officer Somebody please make a transformer base semantic checker that highlights "you must really have meant this other thing, with high probability, please check". There is money in it, and service. (Do NOT implement trusted approval of all suggestions though! Times are dire and that would clearly be dangerous.)
- MrDresden 2y agoAs has been suggested elsewhere, it would be great if certain actions could be taken by the device if the 'wrong' fingerprint is used. For instance, you encode one fingerprint to silently wipe all biometric data on the phone when used. No indication that it happened, just a 'biometric verification error' for all biometrics going forward (until the device is unlocked and new biometrics are encoded).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kovacs_x 2y agoI've always wanted this for payment cards- alternate PIN number that instantly blocks cards and notifies banks security (ie. in case when someone extorts your PIN or wants you to use ATM forcibly) and returns something like "Not enough funds" or similar.
- qrobit 2y agoI saw video "do that if you are forced to enter your card PIN" where they tell you to enter your PIN backwards, which will allegedly be accepted as a usual PIN, but additionally notify authorities. Unfortunately none of the banks I was client of did that
- extraduder_ire 2y agoI think that's an urban legend. it appears to work sometimes as some ATMs don't do anything with the provided pin until you get further in the transaction. A surprising number of ATMs also do "offline" verification, where the card itself is the only thing validating the pin and the transaction is send back to the card processor later.
- rdl 2y agoWhat I want is biometric plus 3 tries 4 digit PIN -- OR a long passphrase.
- rkagerer 2y ago"the outcome ... may have been different had [the officer] required Payne to independently select the finger that he placed on the phone" instead of forcibly mashing Payne's thumb into it himself Next mobile OS feature: shuffle eligible fingers regularly so users get to pick.
- hilbert42 2y agoI don't bother to lock my phone as there's nothing on it of importance—no emails, no social media posts, no bank payments or such. If lost, I'd lose a perfectly good phone but not much else and that would be inconvenient and I'd need a new SIM. As for data, I could potentially lose records of calls and SMS for a day or so as anything useful is backed up. I lost a valuable HTC once and never changed anything, no worries about accounts being stolen as there were none and I just canceled the SIM. If I were a crim I'd would go to much more trouble to ensure that there was nothing on my phone to incriminate me. So I remain perplexed why crims take such obvious risks when it's well known the first thing the Law will want is their phone, and second, the Law will eventually gain access to their phone locked or otherwise.
- rabbits_2002 2y agoI personally don’t use it because the sensors are always fiddly and if I am in an emergency I don’t want to struggle opening my phone.