9 ms·

Enforcing webkit prevents websites from going back to "best viewed with internet explorer" today just with IE replaced by "any broweser using chromium". I don'

Enforcing webkit prevents websites from going back to "best viewed with internet explorer" today just with IE replaced by "any broweser using chromium". I don't use apple, but I do appreciate the suffering of limited choice their users endure for the effect of higher diversity. Thank you, iphone users.

SahAssar 2y ago
And you see that as a reason enough to prevent millions of users from choosing their browser? Are you arguing that diversity of browser engines is important, but we need to stifle/suppress diversity to ensure diversity?
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  > And you see that as a reason enough to prevent millions of users from choosing their browser? "Only works in Chrome" will prevent millions of users from choosing a browser; Google already fucks with Firefox in spots, because they can. Anyone who built websites in the late 90s / early 2000s remembers the IE monoculture.
  - SahAssar 2y ago
    I remember the IE monoculture, and you know what broke it? Choice. Being able to install firefox, opera (and later chrome and safari) on windows, being able to install icab or other browsers on mac os even when apple shipped IE5 as the default.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      If IE had been a thing on iOS we might never have been free of it.
      - SahAssar 2y ago
        Firefox was already at 25% when the iphone released[0]. The idea that there wasn't competition in the browserspace before the iphone is wrong. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Break YouTube in Firefox (which Google does sometimes these days) and people switch to Chrome. Break it on iOS Safari and you’re losing actual revenue.
        SahAssar 2y ago
        You talked about when iOS/iphone launched. Youtube did not work on iOS safari back then since it used flash. You're moving the goalposts. Either way you still have not proven that less user choice now somehow leads to more user choice in the future.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        You’re really missing the point, but as a bonus, that’s why the iPhone launched with a dedicated YouTube app; Google didn’t want to give up all that potential revenue. We know letting a dominant player abuse their position to corner the market has long-term downsides to user choice. Windows, IE, and now Chrome.
        SahAssar 2y ago
        > We know letting a dominant player abuse their position to corner the market has long-term downsides to user choice. Windows, IE, and now Chrome. The solution to that is to stop the abuse, not remove user choice.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        I’m all for breaking Chrome apart from Google’s ads business. Until regulators stop being asleep at the wheel, “we can’t lock iOS users out of everything” likely keeps Safari alive.
thefz 2y ago
So basically having no choice and a subpar engine shoved down your throat is actually better for the whole web because otherwise Chrome would spread too much?

SahAssar 2y ago

And you see that as a reason enough to prevent millions of users from choosing their browser? Are you arguing that diversity of browser engines is important, but we need to stifle/suppress diversity to ensure diversity?

ceejayoz 2y ago
> And you see that as a reason enough to prevent millions of users from choosing their browser? "Only works in Chrome" will prevent millions of users from choosing a browser; Google already fucks with Firefox in spots, because they can. Anyone who built websites in the late 90s / early 2000s remembers the IE monoculture.
- SahAssar 2y ago
  I remember the IE monoculture, and you know what broke it? Choice. Being able to install firefox, opera (and later chrome and safari) on windows, being able to install icab or other browsers on mac os even when apple shipped IE5 as the default.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    If IE had been a thing on iOS we might never have been free of it.
    - SahAssar 2y ago
      Firefox was already at 25% when the iphone released[0]. The idea that there wasn't competition in the browserspace before the iphone is wrong. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        Break YouTube in Firefox (which Google does sometimes these days) and people switch to Chrome. Break it on iOS Safari and you’re losing actual revenue.
        SahAssar 2y ago
        You talked about when iOS/iphone launched. Youtube did not work on iOS safari back then since it used flash. You're moving the goalposts. Either way you still have not proven that less user choice now somehow leads to more user choice in the future.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        You’re really missing the point, but as a bonus, that’s why the iPhone launched with a dedicated YouTube app; Google didn’t want to give up all that potential revenue. We know letting a dominant player abuse their position to corner the market has long-term downsides to user choice. Windows, IE, and now Chrome.
        SahAssar 2y ago
        > We know letting a dominant player abuse their position to corner the market has long-term downsides to user choice. Windows, IE, and now Chrome. The solution to that is to stop the abuse, not remove user choice.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        I’m all for breaking Chrome apart from Google’s ads business. Until regulators stop being asleep at the wheel, “we can’t lock iOS users out of everything” likely keeps Safari alive.

thefz 2y ago

So basically having no choice and a subpar engine shoved down your throat is actually better for the whole web because otherwise Chrome would spread too much?