5 ms·

why implementing ews when it is already deprecated and will be removed in two years? https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/retirement-of-exc

why implementing ews when it is already deprecated and will be removed in two years? https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/retirement-of-exchange-web-services-in-exchange-online/ba-p/3924440 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/exchange-team-blog/re...

shamiln 3y ago
Not everyone is using Exchange Online.
- lousken 3y ago
  only like vast majority, yes, i know
  - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
    We'll see how long that remains the case when Microsoft can't keep the Chinese government out of its cloud.
    - coryrc 3y ago
      You think outsourced point-and-click administrators of company on-prem servers could do better?
      - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
        Yes. Managing Exchange is not that hard. Having everyone's eggs in one basket though is just dumb.
        ruszki 3y ago
        Not that hard for you. I think, you’re overestimating the average employee. At my current company, the maintainers absolutely don’t have a clue how it works, and they are completely unusable when there is a problem with it. They don’t know even the basic things, they just blindly follow transcripts from Microsoft, like telecallers.
      - wolverine876 3y ago
        A valid point - you can't match Microsoft's resources and in-house expertise. But you are probably a much less appealing target. Also, you might be willing to lock it down more than Microsoft, which has to please all those millions of customers and wants to admin it at the lowest cost possible - including possibly minimizing support calls by using permissive settings - and not with the most security possible.
        ocdtrekkie 3y ago
        Indeed, one of my favorite inconvenient truths is that geo-blocking remains one of the most effective, and essentially free attack surface reductions you can make. If all your staff are in a country, there's no reason for your internal tools to be accessible from any other country. If all of your customers are in a country, there's no reason for any of your web presence to be accessible from any other country.
    - lousken 3y ago
      100%, but they are still not really interested in onpremises exchange, at least the latest version is 2019 which is no longer in mainline support, only security with no new version announced these days it looks like every email is a teams message anyways, so unless they also release onpremise teams server, i don't see a future of exchange very bright maybe everyone will move to google workspace in the future?
      - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
        Teams will crater in popularity once it's no longer bundled with Office 365. Nobody uses Teams because it's good, they use it because it was free with stuff they already had. 2019 is technically still receiving feature updates because of the delay of the new Exchange on-prem, though however that transition takes place will be wild.
        lousken 3y ago
        I don't think we will be able to get rid of teams that easily 1) it's a PITA to migrate teams accounts between tenants not mentioning migrating stuff off teams to another solution 2) companies use teams as "shared folders" in respective channels 3) copilot which enterprises even pay extra for
        wkat4242 3y ago
        Teams shared folders are simply SharePoint folders. Like, they literally are. So you're not dependent on teams for accessing them.
        lousken 3y ago
        technically correct, but people would still need to get used to the change
        insaneirish 3y ago
        > Teams will crater in popularity once it's no longer bundled with Office 365. Nobody uses Teams because it's good, they use it because it was free with stuff they already had. And what if the unbundling doesn't affect the price? Don't confuse MSFT making mediocre products with them being commercially stupid.
babolivier 3y ago
As Sean Burke puts it on the related bug on Bugzilla (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1847846#c2 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1847846#c2): > At present, EWS is our best way to enable support for both Exchange Online and on-premise installations. > Graph API has been considered and may be considered again in future, but it currently provides narrower support than EWS and lacks some functionality for desktop applications. Even with the announcement that EWS support will be removed for Exchange Online, it's still valuable in the short term for enabling access for a wide userbase and in the long term for supporting users using on-premise installations.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  >on-premise installations But really tho… The venn of “my work uses exchange on-prem”, “I use Linux desktop and can’t use outlook”, “I am aware of and would use exchange on Thunderbird” is pretty damn small. I think they’re making a mistake using EWS and planning on targeting on-prem with the same or more weight than online.
  - kbenson 3y ago
    And yet it's exactly the situation I'm in. I use evolution on Ubuntu through a horizon virtual desktop, purely for better exchange support. I switched from thunderbird on windows to outlook on windows when I started having a lot more meetings to coordinate, and then evolution when a virtual desktop solution was rolled out and Linux was an option for desktops at work again. Quite a few other people in my department that just use thunderbird on Linux because they can't stand outlook or using the web version would happily have better outlook support. Perhaps there is an audience here and it just doesn't match your own experiences.
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      I’m not sure what you are talking about. When did I say where I was in that venn? I am Linux Desktop and hate outlook web. I am the target user, and the post about Rust and using EWS gives me almost no confidence in this. And I’m more aware that my case isn’t popular, and targeting on-premise is even less so.
mairusu 3y ago
Because you basically have no other realistic choice for the time being when dealing with crap such as Exchange.
- gtech1 3y ago
  Em Client (www.emclient.com) has supported Exchange for a while I think
- lousken 3y ago
  As a linux user, it's more like either die by the web version or migrate the company to another mail solution. And yes, I know evolution does ews as well, but i got tired of sync issues and having to switch from deb to flatpack because of it and other annoyances over the years. I mostly gave up on email anyway and switched to a better solution - teams (at least until July after which the deb package of v1 should stop working and v2 doesn't work for me in firefox - can't unmute myself in calls) /s
gerdesj 3y ago
EWS is the only realistic way for "not Outlook" to work - MAPI is not exactly an open API. When EWS goes away so will rather a lot of customers, probably not enough to dent the bottom line (initially). Then it becomes apparent that all email is equal and Exchange online becomes a footnote in history. Microsoft used to do email and then they shat the bed. All a bit embarrassing on the surface but not really. Running email systems is a right old pain when all you really desire is data (and metadata) to mine and flog on to other data fetishists. Email is generally rather static and rather large in storage terms but it can yield gold from personal exchanges. Ideally you get someone else to take the pain (AWS, Google and co - yes they get to mine but they bear the costs too) but ensure the marks use Outlook (and they do). Then you change Outlook (loving the new Electron version) to store all credentials in your cloud. You use those creds to mine data within email held on other people's clouds. They front the cost of storage. Smashing.
- stackskipton 3y ago
  Whatever you are smoking, I want some. Exchange Online isn't going anywhere and I doubt deprecating EWS is going to matter because where are those customers going to go? GMail where they would have to completely change how they do business and use their APIs instead? Nope, they will just bite the bullet and rewrite everything to use Graph API instead. As for Microsoft wanting EMail Data for mining vs not hosting, check out the MSFT revenue. It's not in Advertising space that's for sure.
  - gerdesj 3y ago
    "Nope, they will just bite the bullet and rewrite everything to use Graph API instead." LOL, no I won't.
- DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
  [flagged]

shamiln 3y ago

Not everyone is using Exchange Online.

lousken 3y ago
only like vast majority, yes, i know
- ocdtrekkie 3y ago
  We'll see how long that remains the case when Microsoft can't keep the Chinese government out of its cloud.
  - coryrc 3y ago
    You think outsourced point-and-click administrators of company on-prem servers could do better?
    - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
      Yes. Managing Exchange is not that hard. Having everyone's eggs in one basket though is just dumb.
      - ruszki 3y ago
        Not that hard for you. I think, you’re overestimating the average employee. At my current company, the maintainers absolutely don’t have a clue how it works, and they are completely unusable when there is a problem with it. They don’t know even the basic things, they just blindly follow transcripts from Microsoft, like telecallers.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      A valid point - you can't match Microsoft's resources and in-house expertise. But you are probably a much less appealing target. Also, you might be willing to lock it down more than Microsoft, which has to please all those millions of customers and wants to admin it at the lowest cost possible - including possibly minimizing support calls by using permissive settings - and not with the most security possible.
      - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
        Indeed, one of my favorite inconvenient truths is that geo-blocking remains one of the most effective, and essentially free attack surface reductions you can make. If all your staff are in a country, there's no reason for your internal tools to be accessible from any other country. If all of your customers are in a country, there's no reason for any of your web presence to be accessible from any other country.
  - lousken 3y ago
    100%, but they are still not really interested in onpremises exchange, at least the latest version is 2019 which is no longer in mainline support, only security with no new version announced these days it looks like every email is a teams message anyways, so unless they also release onpremise teams server, i don't see a future of exchange very bright maybe everyone will move to google workspace in the future?
    - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
      Teams will crater in popularity once it's no longer bundled with Office 365. Nobody uses Teams because it's good, they use it because it was free with stuff they already had. 2019 is technically still receiving feature updates because of the delay of the new Exchange on-prem, though however that transition takes place will be wild.
      - lousken 3y ago
        I don't think we will be able to get rid of teams that easily 1) it's a PITA to migrate teams accounts between tenants not mentioning migrating stuff off teams to another solution 2) companies use teams as "shared folders" in respective channels 3) copilot which enterprises even pay extra for
        wkat4242 3y ago
        Teams shared folders are simply SharePoint folders. Like, they literally are. So you're not dependent on teams for accessing them.
        lousken 3y ago
        technically correct, but people would still need to get used to the change
      - insaneirish 3y ago
        > Teams will crater in popularity once it's no longer bundled with Office 365. Nobody uses Teams because it's good, they use it because it was free with stuff they already had. And what if the unbundling doesn't affect the price? Don't confuse MSFT making mediocre products with them being commercially stupid.

babolivier 3y ago

As Sean Burke puts it on the related bug on Bugzilla (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1847846#c2 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1847846#c2): > At present, EWS is our best way to enable support for both Exchange Online and on-premise installations. > Graph API has been considered and may be considered again in future, but it currently provides narrower support than EWS and lacks some functionality for desktop applications. Even with the announcement that EWS support will be removed for Exchange Online, it's still valuable in the short term for enabling access for a wide userbase and in the long term for supporting users using on-premise installations.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
>on-premise installations But really tho… The venn of “my work uses exchange on-prem”, “I use Linux desktop and can’t use outlook”, “I am aware of and would use exchange on Thunderbird” is pretty damn small. I think they’re making a mistake using EWS and planning on targeting on-prem with the same or more weight than online.
- kbenson 3y ago
  And yet it's exactly the situation I'm in. I use evolution on Ubuntu through a horizon virtual desktop, purely for better exchange support. I switched from thunderbird on windows to outlook on windows when I started having a lot more meetings to coordinate, and then evolution when a virtual desktop solution was rolled out and Linux was an option for desktops at work again. Quite a few other people in my department that just use thunderbird on Linux because they can't stand outlook or using the web version would happily have better outlook support. Perhaps there is an audience here and it just doesn't match your own experiences.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    I’m not sure what you are talking about. When did I say where I was in that venn? I am Linux Desktop and hate outlook web. I am the target user, and the post about Rust and using EWS gives me almost no confidence in this. And I’m more aware that my case isn’t popular, and targeting on-premise is even less so.

mairusu 3y ago

Because you basically have no other realistic choice for the time being when dealing with crap such as Exchange.

gtech1 3y ago
Em Client (www.emclient.com) has supported Exchange for a while I think
lousken 3y ago
As a linux user, it's more like either die by the web version or migrate the company to another mail solution. And yes, I know evolution does ews as well, but i got tired of sync issues and having to switch from deb to flatpack because of it and other annoyances over the years. I mostly gave up on email anyway and switched to a better solution - teams (at least until July after which the deb package of v1 should stop working and v2 doesn't work for me in firefox - can't unmute myself in calls) /s

gerdesj 3y ago

EWS is the only realistic way for "not Outlook" to work - MAPI is not exactly an open API. When EWS goes away so will rather a lot of customers, probably not enough to dent the bottom line (initially). Then it becomes apparent that all email is equal and Exchange online becomes a footnote in history. Microsoft used to do email and then they shat the bed. All a bit embarrassing on the surface but not really. Running email systems is a right old pain when all you really desire is data (and metadata) to mine and flog on to other data fetishists. Email is generally rather static and rather large in storage terms but it can yield gold from personal exchanges. Ideally you get someone else to take the pain (AWS, Google and co - yes they get to mine but they bear the costs too) but ensure the marks use Outlook (and they do). Then you change Outlook (loving the new Electron version) to store all credentials in your cloud. You use those creds to mine data within email held on other people's clouds. They front the cost of storage. Smashing.

stackskipton 3y ago
Whatever you are smoking, I want some. Exchange Online isn't going anywhere and I doubt deprecating EWS is going to matter because where are those customers going to go? GMail where they would have to completely change how they do business and use their APIs instead? Nope, they will just bite the bullet and rewrite everything to use Graph API instead. As for Microsoft wanting EMail Data for mining vs not hosting, check out the MSFT revenue. It's not in Advertising space that's for sure.
- gerdesj 3y ago
  "Nope, they will just bite the bullet and rewrite everything to use Graph API instead." LOL, no I won't.
DaiPlusPlus 3y ago
[flagged]