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AltStore. The first Apple approved alternative App Store
- doctorwhat 3y agoThe contrast of text and background is really really bad for the muted text. Accessibility related changes would be most welcome.
- TheJoeMan 3y agoUnfortunately paying Apple’s extortion fee might provide ammo to legitimize it.
- talldayo 3y agoSomeone ends up paying Apple either way. On the App Store, that person usually ends up being the developer. With the new framework (stupid as it may be), developers can choose to externalize that cost to users and make an example of how ridiculous it is. With high-demand apps like emulators, it's easy to attract users and directly expose them to the limits Apple imposes on them. That's a great vehicle for change, and I fully expect Apple to backpedal on the Core Technology Fee once it attracts broader scrutiny. It makes perfect sense to me that paying $99/year for the App Store is cheaper than $0.50/install. But you shouldn't have to pay anything to install Free Software in the first place, so I can also see why some people would consider protesting Apple's policy to be invaluable.
- nazgu1 3y agoAs far as I know to distribute app outside AppStore you need to notarize it, so you need to pay for developer account $99 AND still $0.5 per install
- Aloisius 3y agoApple waves fees for non-profits (both developer annual fee and core technology fee), so at least qualifying free software organizations don't have to pay anything for either the app store or alt stores. https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-waiver/ https://developer.apple.com/support/fee-waiver/
- talldayo 3y agoFree software organizations don't package software. The people developing iOS ports of FOSS applications are not going to register as a nonprofit to play Apple's silly game. It's an insult of a fig-leaf to the industry at-large.
- Aloisius 3y agoPlenty of free software organizations package software. Heck Mozilla, Signal, VideoLAN, Mastodon, Wikimedia and Tor even package iOS software. And frankly, most of the iOS ports of FOSS aren't themselves are closed source, so they don't really count as FOSS, but if the people who, say, ported OpenOffice to iPhone gave it to the Apache foundation? I can't see why they wouldn't release it.
- metalspoon 3y agoThat's a common misconception about free software. Free software is about the user's right to see and modify the software. Doesn't mean people can't do business with it. You're right that they usually don't require fee for installation, but that's merely because that the source code is available on the internet, in most cases, and so the user can install it without paying anyway.
- nijave 3y agoCan't remember the details but isn't there also an impact to in app purchases and payment methods? I thought the restrictions/Apple's fee around those were different? e.x. You average $2 per install on in-app purchases you get $1.40 (30% Apple fees) on app store or $1.50 ($0.50 install fee) on 3rd party store
- TillE 3y agoI really can't imagine any circumstance where the European Commission is ok with Apple charging competitors for the privilege of competing with them, in a market explicitly mandated by the DMA. AltStore or Epic complying with Apple's current dubious terms makes no real difference.
- oreilles 3y agoIn Switzerland, Delta Emulator is not available in the App Store since Riley made it an AltStore exclusive in Europe. However, you cannot get AltStore either because Switzerland isn't part of the countries where Apple allows alternative stores: https://support.apple.com/fr-fr/118110#countries-and-regions https://support.apple.com/fr-fr/118110#countries-and-regions.
- neonsunset 3y agoEven reading the page is mildly infuriating because how far it goes to try to scare people away into using AppStore only. I have never seen a company resist a legislation with this much effort before.
- metalspoon 3y agoWhat's more stupid is that I can't install my app to my phone. Because it's supposedly not secure according to Apple. Even more stupid is that if I pay the annual developer fee to Apple, they let me install it.
- neonsunset 3y agoYou can install without a fee through your own "debug locally" certificate but it expires fast, it's a clunky process...
- soziawa 3y agoIt is available for me in Switzerland. In fact, it's the number one app.
- mrbombastic 3y agoCan’t you get it through the world sideloading instructions? I haven’t tried admittedly
- lapcat 3y agohttps://apps.apple.com/ch/app/delta-game-emulator/id1048524688 https://apps.apple.com/ch/app/delta-game-emulator/id10485246...
- dainiusse 3y agoI agree it is cheap, but I want to at least try something without paying.
- rcarmo 3y agoUnpopular opinion: I'm really not keen on Riley using Delta as a key driver to make EU folk pay for the AltStore. I'd much, much rather get it from the Apple App Store, just like everyone else on the planet--and I'd pay Eur 4.99 for it there, easy, just because I really don't want the hassle of dealing with another App Store.
- hx833001 3y agoYeah that’s too bad since it’s free everywhere else in the world on the App Store.
- talldayo 3y agoWell, now you can add it to the ever-expanding list of iOS apps you just can't use. No need to feel lonely about it though, there's a lot of great free apps that Android users are also locked-out of unless they flip the sideloading switch. Here are just a few: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/
- rcarmo 3y agoYour comparison is pointless (I've been using F-Droid for almost a decade, and that's where I get most "serious" Android utilities today - like Termux and various UI tweaks I can't do without). I am fine with hacking Android (and running emulators on it) because I don't rely on it for work, IM, family or work stuff. It's just a sandbox for me. But I would have liked to have Delta (and paid for it) on iOS, because that's where I spend most of my time. I'll just wait until RetroArch (or someone else) ships on iOS.
- talldayo 3y agoThat's a shame. It's just free software, there should be no reason why you can't just put it on your phone if you have the code and want to approve it. Maybe Apple should re-draft the App Store conditions to better accommodate Free Software if this is the sort of business they'd like to attract. If not, oh well, it's only the users that have to suffer. > I'll just wait until RetroArch (or someone else) ships on iOS. You mean the App Store, right? Retroarch on iOS is practically as old as sideloading Delta at this point: https://docs.libretro.com/guides/install-ios/ https://docs.libretro.com/guides/install-ios/
- quotemstr 3y agoWhat specific apps might this app store distribute that Apple's won't? Apple's insistent that third party app stores enforce Apple's content restrictions IMHO defeats the purpose of the third party app store mechanism.
- newaccount74 3y agoApple changed the rule to allow Gameboy emulators on the App Store days before the Alt Store went live. So even if you don't install the Alt Store, that's already a benefit for everyone. Competition is a good thing.
- mateus1 3y agoCan someone give me examples of good apps other than emulators?
- fwn 3y agoI think by design of the ecosystem it makes the most sense for apps that can't be on the main store. That would be emulators, uncensored social media, probably apps that do not meet the NSFW policy of the App Store... that kind of thing. I'm not sure we'll see user-enabling apps for proprietary services like newpipe, because it's still a store, so corporate censorship is to be expected. In that sense, it is far inferior to a true, no store, side-loading ability like on Android, where you can freely install any application you want. I've managed to get almost all my apps (sans Google apps and banking) to autoupdate through Obtainium on Android. It really feels like the future.
- Aloisius 3y agoApple requires Alt stores only distribute apps suitable for all audiences (age 4+), so NSFW is out.
- ssbash 3y agoYattee, an alternative to NewPipe, has been available on the AppStore for over a year. Well before there was any pressure from the DMA. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/yattee/id1595136629 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/yattee/id1595136629
- fwn 3y agoYattee is a good example for what Apple puts those developers through. Here is a direct quote from their website: > Apple keeps rejecting macOS version of Yattee for several unrelated and random reasons. As I believe the App Store approval process is random and getting approval depends mostly on whether the reviewer has had a nice day, I keep resubmitting macOS versions with every update so maybe we will get lucky one day. https://github.com/yattee/yattee/wiki/FAQ https://github.com/yattee/yattee/wiki/FAQ
- gardenhedge 3y agoApple must be delighted to see this.. Because it's an awful UX
- matthewtse 3y agoyes, quite a few hoops to jump through to get something working. Back in the day, I went through massive effort to jailbreak my iPhone, void the warranty, and use the Cydia app store (amazing that this whole community operated for free). But slowly the vanilla iPhone experience got good enough that I didn't need to jailbreak anymore, or at least it wasn't worth the effort. And the community died down as well. Interesting to see the resurgence of a similar concept.
- aranelsurion 3y agoI guess community of it died also because of how difficult/rare jailbreaks got, with some significant time of droughts between jailbreaks. Also jailbreaks had too many downsides; some apps would be too invasive, crash the Springboard, some secure apps (bank etc) wouldn't run, iirc updates weren't possible or hard to do, "tethered" jailbreaks required restoring them each time you reboot etc. etc. Too much day-to-day fighting against the system at the end. Alternative stores OTOH have a lot more promise, if Apple can't manage to kill them through malicious compliance. They have a lower barrier of entry, and most downsides of JB don't apply either.
- Zambyte 3y agoAwful UX relative to the Appstore? How so?
- quietfox 3y agoI subscribed some days ago, but still can’t get the download to work, even in Safari as suggested.
- aranelsurion 3y agoI had an issue with the Download button not working the first time as well. The solution was to go back to AltStore homepage, click and go through the checkout process again, at some point it says you already are subscribed and instead of charging you again takes you to the download page, where this time the button works. At least that's what happened for me, worth a try.
- bouk 3y agoThank you!!
- KomoD 3y agoHow many apps are there?
- aranelsurion 3y agoTwo. Delta the emulator, and a clipboard manager. I assume there will be a few more soon, though Apple still pushes for notarization and such, making things difficult for the lone hacker developing for fun. So I don't expect as many apps as once cydia had. It's pretty cool that I can play Chrono Trigger and Pokemon FireRed Rocket Edition on the go though :) I'd love to see Epic bringing Fortnite to AltStore out of spite. :D
- Hamuko 3y agoIs it not possible to add sources to the PAL store?
- aranelsurion 3y agoIt is possible, but if sources have any apps that are not notarized (none of them are right now) they cannot be added.
- _djo_ 3y agoEpic has already announced they’ll be launching the Epic Games Store on iOS later this year. https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/epicgamessweden https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/epicgamessweden https://twitter.com/epicgames/status/1770500825166545305 https://twitter.com/epicgames/status/1770500825166545305
- AnthonyMouse 3y agoIf an alternate store can have a game emulator, could it also have e.g. an Android app emulator, which in turn could run Android app "ROMs" that aren't individually notarized?
- Shawnj2 3y agoYou can run Linux software on iOS via iSH. Efforts to get anything more powerful on iOS is limited because JIT is restricted to web browsers only.
- blackeyeblitzar 3y agoWhat does “Apple approved” mean? I know Apple has heavy handed curation, for example requiring various forms of moderation / censorship of social media apps. Can these stores offer whatever they want? Also what’s with that fee? Why aren’t phones forced to operate like traditional operating systems? Apple shouldn’t be allowed to charge fees for people to install software on devices they own.
- sixothree 3y agoKnowing Apple I'd personally be concerned about retribution from them. I feel like something else completely unrelated on my device will stop functioning because I'm a user of the app store.
- switch007 3y agoBut you'll never be able to prove it Like my iPhone 12 getting slower and worse battery with each iOS release even with a new battery...
- apantel 3y agoYeah you can’t update these phones. Things just degrade if you do. Happily running iOS 15 on my iPhone 12.
- shepherdjerred 3y agoThat's strange. I'm on iOS 17 on my iPhone 11 Pro and it's just fine. Maybe the battery issues mentioned are due to normal degradation?
- teekert 3y agoI don’t feel like my iPhone 12 mini is slow with 17.4? I guess it doesn’t make sense t argue about subjective experiences but I just wanted add a some anecdata. Battery feels just fine (over a day, that is with Tailscale turned off [did get better some updates ago.])
- 3y ago
- drooby 3y agoIs it me or is the copy on this website terrible? And probably super confusing to laymen.
- hcks 3y agoCan’t wait to have to download 20 different marketplaces with UX all uglier than the last
- tossandthrow 3y ago[flagged]
- idle_zealot 3y agoThe App Store sets a pretty low bar.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- 1over137 3y agoSeems this requires an AppleID. So is there no way to sideload without one?
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40067556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40067556
- gjvc 3y ago[flagged]
- worldmerge 3y agoHow can I trick my USA based iphone to think it's based in Europe to access these app stores?
- loint 3y ago[dead]