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Most of the opposition I hear to a TikTok ban/divestment boils down to: 1. If TikTok is a problem, so are the other social media platforms 2. The Chinese gove

Most of the opposition I hear to a TikTok ban/divestment boils down to: 1. If TikTok is a problem, so are the other social media platforms 2. The Chinese government can just buy data from a data broker if the ban goes through 3. Such a ban is purely made of xenophobia 4. There’s no evidence that TikTok is being used to influence its users 5. Such a ban runs afoul of the 1st amendment To this, I say: 1. I agree that the other platforms are a problem and we need comprehensive privacy legislation to address that. Could action against TikTok be better framed as a first step focused on low hanging fruit? 2. I think too many people focus on data gathering in the abstract without considering the richness of data that is only available in 1st party form, i.e. granular data about the kinds of content and ideas that users are interested in and susceptible to. This may exist in some forms from data brokers, but 1st party access enables something much more powerful. 3. I do think some people are primarily concerned because of xenophobia, but this has little bearing on the potentially real underlying issues. 4. TikTok directly asking users to contact their lawmakers was an overt act that shows the platform is capable of spurring on political action by its users. A CCP-controlled platform that can successfully get people to call their congresspeople should make us pause. 5. I am not a lawyer, but this seems like a scenario where commerce is regulated, not speech. I think there is a lot of confusion about what constitutes a true first amendment issue, and in the absence of TikTok, there are a myriad of ways to continue expressing freely. This is a hard issue to discuss outside of a community like HN because almost all discussions are made up of whataboutism or hardline opinions aligned to 1-5. I truly don’t know what the right answer is, but I do think TikTok should worry us. I think other platforms should worry us too. We already know how harmful Facebook has been to the political process, and arguably social media is still in its infancy compared to whatever is yet to come.

throwaw12 3y ago
> Could action against TikTok be better framed as a first step focused on low hanging fruit? Absolutely no, because if you are making first steps, you need generalize approach and not selectively target companies > TikTok directly asking users to contact their lawmakers was an overt act that shows the platform is capable of spurring on political action by its users. What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception?
- MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
  > > TikTok directly asking users to contact their lawmakers was an overt act that shows the platform is capable of spurring on political action by its users. > What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception? There may not be anything inherently wrong with political action, but when one of the concerns is that the CCP can use TikTok to influence Americans' political behavior, that whole episode proved exactly why everyone believes it. What happens if they start pushing overtly anti-NATO and anti-Taiwan messages instead?
- haswell 3y ago
  > Absolutely no, because if you are making first steps, you need generalize approach and not selectively target companies This is an engineering mindset. I’m not aware of any other social media platform that is currently in TikTok’s position wrt affiliation with a geopolitical adversary. I’m not arguing that there shouldn’t also be a comprehensive solution, but right now, it seems clear that TikTok stands alone in terms of why it’s being targeted. > What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception? This isn’t about our rights to call our congresspeople. Of course everyone calling has that right. At issue is the source of that influence. Outside of the TikTok conversation, such influence is “foreign interference”, “election meddling”, etc. The concern boils down to: are we comfortable with a major foreign government holding the keys to one of the biggest megaphones in existence? It’s a brilliant play, really. “Direct” interference in the form of targeted advertising and misinformation is something most users find themselves hostile towards. But a social media app that everyone loves is the perfect Trojan horse and in a hypothetical situation where influence was applied in an effort to achieved darker goals, the CCP’s biggest defenders will be their targets. Hypothetically.

throwaw12 3y ago

> Could action against TikTok be better framed as a first step focused on low hanging fruit? Absolutely no, because if you are making first steps, you need generalize approach and not selectively target companies > TikTok directly asking users to contact their lawmakers was an overt act that shows the platform is capable of spurring on political action by its users. What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception?

MajimasEyepatch 3y ago
> > TikTok directly asking users to contact their lawmakers was an overt act that shows the platform is capable of spurring on political action by its users. > What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception? There may not be anything inherently wrong with political action, but when one of the concerns is that the CCP can use TikTok to influence Americans' political behavior, that whole episode proved exactly why everyone believes it. What happens if they start pushing overtly anti-NATO and anti-Taiwan messages instead?
haswell 3y ago
> Absolutely no, because if you are making first steps, you need generalize approach and not selectively target companies This is an engineering mindset. I’m not aware of any other social media platform that is currently in TikTok’s position wrt affiliation with a geopolitical adversary. I’m not arguing that there shouldn’t also be a comprehensive solution, but right now, it seems clear that TikTok stands alone in terms of why it’s being targeted. > What's wrong with this exactly? You have rights to call your congress representatives when you need them, it is normal and expected in functioning democracy, why this is an exception? This isn’t about our rights to call our congresspeople. Of course everyone calling has that right. At issue is the source of that influence. Outside of the TikTok conversation, such influence is “foreign interference”, “election meddling”, etc. The concern boils down to: are we comfortable with a major foreign government holding the keys to one of the biggest megaphones in existence? It’s a brilliant play, really. “Direct” interference in the form of targeted advertising and misinformation is something most users find themselves hostile towards. But a social media app that everyone loves is the perfect Trojan horse and in a hypothetical situation where influence was applied in an effort to achieved darker goals, the CCP’s biggest defenders will be their targets. Hypothetically.