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It seems less horrible on Android than iOS at least. It is still relatively easy to sideload stuff, even on Android TVs. I manually installed ScummVM that way

It seems less horrible on Android than iOS at least. It is still relatively easy to sideload stuff, even on Android TVs. I manually installed ScummVM that way, it wasn’t hard. What’s still concerning to me in the US is how the courts seem “just ok” with no reasonable ability to sideload on iPhones, giving Apple more or less unilateral authority to squash competition if they want. I know it’s technically possible to sideload on iOS if you have a Mac and directly compile the App yourself in Xcode, but Macs are pretty expensive, and that requires understanding dev tools and the like.

blackeyeblitzar 3y ago
Doesn’t side loading still pop up a warning message about security that helps deter users from going outside the Play store?
- aspenmayer 3y ago
  Yes, you have to enable the setting to install from unknown sources, which has a warning message prominently displayed. https://developer.android.com/distribute/marketing-tools/alternative-distribution#unknown-sources https://developer.android.com/distribute/marketing-tools/alt...
talldayo 3y ago
Hopefully, enabling that sort of sideloading as a possibility is the end-goal. Like you said, the market impact is obvious; it gives Apple complete and irrefutable control over what kind of competition can exist on their platform. Apple's game-plan seems to be deliberately ruining the iOS experience until regulators give up. There has been nothing more sad (or less unexpected) than Apple's tragic fall from grace. Maybe they were rotten from the start, but it feels like this squandered golden age of mobile computing is what they'll be remembered for. 15 long years of spooling up the money printers and praying nobody gets loud enough for the regulators to hear. What a sad waste of all our lives.
- metalspoon 3y ago
  Apple was always rotten unless Jobs kicked their ass. Once they kicked Jobs out and he came back to kick their ass again. He was the hero.
  - talldayo 3y ago
    Pendulum swung both ways. Since the very beginning, Jobs was lying to Woz for free labor and ignoring his commercial success and professional input. Jobs' demeanor swung from blatantly incompetent to riotously enthusiastic, neither of which were patterns of behavior that improved Apple until his control was so diluted that he didn't matter anymore. No complete account of Jobs can escape his horrible interpersonal reputation. Much as the modern account protests, his history was vitriol and struggle up to the very end. Heroize him at your own risk.
pseudosaid 3y ago
i use vlc on my iphone and sideload files to vlc via the browser. you just set up a network share and you can copy anything to vlc. no need to compile
- aspenmayer 3y ago
  The person you are responding to was referring to sideloading the app itself, not files used by the app. Sideloading in the context of installing apps on mobile operating systems has a distinct meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading > When referring to Android apps, "sideloading" typically means installing an application package in APK format onto an Android device. Such packages are usually downloaded from websites other than the official app store Google Play. For Android users sideloading of apps is only possible if the user has allowed "Unknown Sources" in their Security Settings. > When referring to iOS apps, "sideloading" means installing an app in IPA format onto an Apple device, usually through the use of a computer program such as Cydia Impactor or Xcode. On modern versions of iOS, the sources of the apps must be trusted by both Apple and the user in "profiles and device management" in settings, except when using jailbreak methods of sideloading apps. Sideloading is only allowed by Apple for internal testing and development of apps using the official SDKs.
metalspoon 3y ago
Sideloading isn't free on iOS. You have to pay $100/year to run your app on your phone. Because sEcUrItY, which makes no sense.
- tombert 3y ago
  You actually can side load on your own phone for free with Xcode. I did this about a year ago when I wrote a sound board with Mario sound effects for a board game we were playing. I didn’t buy a developer license to do so, and my phone wasn’t jailbroken.
  - aspenmayer 3y ago
    I’m assuming you signed with your own developer certificate and resigned every 7 days? Last time I did this I was using Cydia Impactor but it’s been a while. I had an automatic local resigning tool on my device that required jailbreak but I think you can also do this with AltStore/AltServer iirc without jailbreak or just do it manually with Xcode. To your original point upthread, you can run Xcode on a macOS virtual machine if you don’t have a real Apple desktop or laptop.
    - tombert 3y ago
      Yes, that is what I did. It was annoying that I had to keep renewing it, but it wasn’t terribly difficult for nearly anyone who frequents HN. I haven’t ever had success with getting macOS running in a virtual machine but I admittedly haven’t tried in awhile and didn’t spend a ton of time on it.
wbl 3y ago
The competition is Android. There's no reason why Apple should have a third party market on their platform at all.
- tombert 3y ago
  I fear that there’s no disagreement we are going to reach on this particular front, because I feel that Apple’s actions are anti-competitive.

blackeyeblitzar 3y ago

Doesn’t side loading still pop up a warning message about security that helps deter users from going outside the Play store?

aspenmayer 3y ago
Yes, you have to enable the setting to install from unknown sources, which has a warning message prominently displayed. https://developer.android.com/distribute/marketing-tools/alternative-distribution#unknown-sources https://developer.android.com/distribute/marketing-tools/alt...

talldayo 3y ago

Hopefully, enabling that sort of sideloading as a possibility is the end-goal. Like you said, the market impact is obvious; it gives Apple complete and irrefutable control over what kind of competition can exist on their platform. Apple's game-plan seems to be deliberately ruining the iOS experience until regulators give up. There has been nothing more sad (or less unexpected) than Apple's tragic fall from grace. Maybe they were rotten from the start, but it feels like this squandered golden age of mobile computing is what they'll be remembered for. 15 long years of spooling up the money printers and praying nobody gets loud enough for the regulators to hear. What a sad waste of all our lives.

metalspoon 3y ago
Apple was always rotten unless Jobs kicked their ass. Once they kicked Jobs out and he came back to kick their ass again. He was the hero.
- talldayo 3y ago
  Pendulum swung both ways. Since the very beginning, Jobs was lying to Woz for free labor and ignoring his commercial success and professional input. Jobs' demeanor swung from blatantly incompetent to riotously enthusiastic, neither of which were patterns of behavior that improved Apple until his control was so diluted that he didn't matter anymore. No complete account of Jobs can escape his horrible interpersonal reputation. Much as the modern account protests, his history was vitriol and struggle up to the very end. Heroize him at your own risk.

pseudosaid 3y ago

i use vlc on my iphone and sideload files to vlc via the browser. you just set up a network share and you can copy anything to vlc. no need to compile

aspenmayer 3y ago
The person you are responding to was referring to sideloading the app itself, not files used by the app. Sideloading in the context of installing apps on mobile operating systems has a distinct meaning. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading > When referring to Android apps, "sideloading" typically means installing an application package in APK format onto an Android device. Such packages are usually downloaded from websites other than the official app store Google Play. For Android users sideloading of apps is only possible if the user has allowed "Unknown Sources" in their Security Settings. > When referring to iOS apps, "sideloading" means installing an app in IPA format onto an Apple device, usually through the use of a computer program such as Cydia Impactor or Xcode. On modern versions of iOS, the sources of the apps must be trusted by both Apple and the user in "profiles and device management" in settings, except when using jailbreak methods of sideloading apps. Sideloading is only allowed by Apple for internal testing and development of apps using the official SDKs.

metalspoon 3y ago

Sideloading isn't free on iOS. You have to pay $100/year to run your app on your phone. Because sEcUrItY, which makes no sense.

tombert 3y ago
You actually can side load on your own phone for free with Xcode. I did this about a year ago when I wrote a sound board with Mario sound effects for a board game we were playing. I didn’t buy a developer license to do so, and my phone wasn’t jailbroken.
- aspenmayer 3y ago
  I’m assuming you signed with your own developer certificate and resigned every 7 days? Last time I did this I was using Cydia Impactor but it’s been a while. I had an automatic local resigning tool on my device that required jailbreak but I think you can also do this with AltStore/AltServer iirc without jailbreak or just do it manually with Xcode. To your original point upthread, you can run Xcode on a macOS virtual machine if you don’t have a real Apple desktop or laptop.
  - tombert 3y ago
    Yes, that is what I did. It was annoying that I had to keep renewing it, but it wasn’t terribly difficult for nearly anyone who frequents HN. I haven’t ever had success with getting macOS running in a virtual machine but I admittedly haven’t tried in awhile and didn’t spend a ton of time on it.

wbl 3y ago

The competition is Android. There's no reason why Apple should have a third party market on their platform at all.

tombert 3y ago
I fear that there’s no disagreement we are going to reach on this particular front, because I feel that Apple’s actions are anti-competitive.