4 ms·

100% spot on. You can tell this is written by an IC engineer and not a manager/director who would be well aware of the resource costs of doing all of the manual

by sylens 3y ago

100% spot on. You can tell this is written by an IC engineer and not a manager/director who would be well aware of the resource costs of doing all of the manual install/configuration work outlined in the article.

rubyfan 3y ago
Not necessarily. Professional managers can overvalue managed service because they perceive scarcity of skilled resources. Cloud and managed services has an overall negative effect on engineers ability to develop talent thereby exacerbating the scarcity issue. It’s actually harmful for managers as well… over time we’ll need less of them too (since they outsourced part of the job of managing).
vidarh 3y ago
Having been in both positions, my experience is that a whole lot of the idea that cloud is "cheaper" comes from people without awareness on how much of a commodity the skill set to set up and manage non-cloud setups is. You can reduce this all to predictable monthly bills scalable up and down by small fractions of headcount with ease most places. At the very small scale when trying to start something, do what you're comfortable with, because whatever you're not is likely to cost you time. Above that, it's down to what your margins are like, and how large a part the hosting is, but it's rare for cloud to be the cheaper option. Certainly not at list prices - while you're small enough to pay list prices you're being screwed over massively.
- JackSlateur 3y ago
  > how much of a commodity the skill set to set up and manage non-cloud setups is. I've seen so many teams failing this So many little teams actually managing non-cloud setups "Commodity" ? Not here
  - vidarh 3y ago
    Yes, commodity. That doesn't mean anyone bothered to hire for that skill at your employers, but you can go out and hire this skill by the hour from any number of providers. The same problem of teams lacking ops skills exists in companies doing cloud stuff too - often because they've bought the fiction that cloud doesn't need devops.
deeth_starr_v 3y ago
Or even an IC that is new to setting up infra and so they relish it. Do it a couple of times and you start appreciating managed solutions

by sylens 3y ago

rubyfan 3y ago

Not necessarily. Professional managers can overvalue managed service because they perceive scarcity of skilled resources. Cloud and managed services has an overall negative effect on engineers ability to develop talent thereby exacerbating the scarcity issue. It’s actually harmful for managers as well… over time we’ll need less of them too (since they outsourced part of the job of managing).

vidarh 3y ago

Having been in both positions, my experience is that a whole lot of the idea that cloud is "cheaper" comes from people without awareness on how much of a commodity the skill set to set up and manage non-cloud setups is. You can reduce this all to predictable monthly bills scalable up and down by small fractions of headcount with ease most places. At the very small scale when trying to start something, do what you're comfortable with, because whatever you're not is likely to cost you time. Above that, it's down to what your margins are like, and how large a part the hosting is, but it's rare for cloud to be the cheaper option. Certainly not at list prices - while you're small enough to pay list prices you're being screwed over massively.

JackSlateur 3y ago
> how much of a commodity the skill set to set up and manage non-cloud setups is. I've seen so many teams failing this So many little teams actually managing non-cloud setups "Commodity" ? Not here
- vidarh 3y ago
  Yes, commodity. That doesn't mean anyone bothered to hire for that skill at your employers, but you can go out and hire this skill by the hour from any number of providers. The same problem of teams lacking ops skills exists in companies doing cloud stuff too - often because they've bought the fiction that cloud doesn't need devops.

deeth_starr_v 3y ago

Or even an IC that is new to setting up infra and so they relish it. Do it a couple of times and you start appreciating managed solutions