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It seems to be upsetting VW's local US management[1], even if their German based management might be quietly pleased with this outcome. [1] https://labornotes.

It seems to be upsetting VW's local US management[1], even if their German based management might be quietly pleased with this outcome. [1] https://labornotes.org/blogs/2019/06/volkswagen-declares-war-against-works-council-and-german-union https://labornotes.org/blogs/2019/06/volkswagen-declares-war...

jwagenet 3y ago
Based on that article, European management seems to be pushing against US unionization too (installing anti union local ceo, etc)
rrr_oh_man 3y ago
Anecdotally, I have not come across any German, Austrian, or Swiss CEO who liked unions.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  Pretty much, and that's considering unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US. A lot of union busting goes in in Austria even if unions are legal. Austrian Antron Paar is notorious for firing everyone who voices about starting a union. So I have no idea why grandparent and other commenters on HN, would assume VW would be "silently happy" to see more unions, when I'm pretty sure they're not that happy about already having one in Germany but they have to tolerate it because it's the law there, but deep down they'd rather not have any at all as that's how businesses role.
  - emptysongglass 3y ago
    > Pretty much, and that's considering unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US. I think you may be talking beyond your knowledge here. Unions in the Nordics are incredibly strong with clear majorities in at least Denmark and Sweden (I'll let someone else chime in on Norway).
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      I was wrong to generalize. What I meant was the unions in Europe where I am(Austria) are weaker than in the US since they're too nice and non confrontational resulting in loosing at their own interests.
      - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
        Respectfully, I don’t think you know what you are talking about. There are no comic book mafia labour unions with no show contracts, but employees’ rights in Austria are monumentally better in almost every way compared to the US.
        Rinzler89 3y ago
        Please, don't move the goalposts, I was comparing unions' power not workers' rights, tow deferent things. Just look how useless the IT union in Austria was with it's salary increases below inflation. You know what would have helped with their negotiations? The right to strike and let IT infra fall apart for a day, but oh wait, they're not allowed to by law. Unions in the US are a lot more confrontational than in Austria. But since you opened that can of worms, some companies in Austria will fire you on the spot if you talk about starting a company union(Betreibsrat) because in Austria you have no workers protection against being fired for no reason, even while you're on sick leave. Even colleagues from the US were shocked on how easy it is for them to get fired here when back home they could have sued for unfair dismissal, but here they were told they have no grounds because the employer can terminate you any time for any reason. Another mate, got sued by his employer since the IT infra he was in charge of crashed while he was sick in hospital and the employer could find him liable for the damages by Austrian labor law. In Austria, not the US. And let's not talk about the infamous 'all-in' contracts some companies use to get you to work unpaid overtime. Now tell me more about these amazing workers' rights in Austria.
        theyinwhy 3y ago
        I am not an Austrian but what I found online is very different to what you are writing. - Unions bargaining for everyone, including non-members. Where on earth do you have something like that? - IT KV giving everyone a yearly raise instead of only raising the minimum income - Also, laws against "Motivkuendigungen" seem a lot like "protection against being fired for no reason" - You have all-ins everywhere, this is not some Austrian specialty. Oh and did you hear about the new US specialty of "unlimited vacation"? It is more or less the canceling of your vacation as every vacation you take will be used against you. I fear you have no idea what a safe haven of a country you seem to be working in.
  - MandieD 3y ago
    “… unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US.” Maybe in other countries, but certainly not in Germany. I grew up in the southern US, and am still astounded at how strong and effective unions are here, even in conservative Bavaria. I’m in IT, but employed under a permanent contract that was negotiated by and is enforced by IG Metall, the industrial union for all non-management employees of lots of companies, regardless of job function. For example, Germany requires that employers give 24 paid vacation days per year. The contract I signed has 30. As the post-COVID inflation spun up, they pretty quickly got us an 8% across-the-board pay increase without much drama, because they’re taken pretty seriously by management, and that’s on top of lots of little increases over the years. I don’t adore everything IG Metall does, but I have trouble even imagining a comparable situation in the US, especially the southern US.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      You're comparing the most powerful union in Germany though. There are much weaker unions in Europe. For example the IT union in Austria is super weak.
      - pinkgolem 3y ago
        But it's the relevant uni on for vw
      - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
        Why do you say the IT union is super weak in Austria? Honestly asking.
        Rinzler89 3y ago
        Have you seen the results of the KV negotiations of the IT union in the last years with booming inflation?

jwagenet 3y ago

Based on that article, European management seems to be pushing against US unionization too (installing anti union local ceo, etc)

rrr_oh_man 3y ago

Anecdotally, I have not come across any German, Austrian, or Swiss CEO who liked unions.

Rinzler89 3y ago
Pretty much, and that's considering unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US. A lot of union busting goes in in Austria even if unions are legal. Austrian Antron Paar is notorious for firing everyone who voices about starting a union. So I have no idea why grandparent and other commenters on HN, would assume VW would be "silently happy" to see more unions, when I'm pretty sure they're not that happy about already having one in Germany but they have to tolerate it because it's the law there, but deep down they'd rather not have any at all as that's how businesses role.
- emptysongglass 3y ago
  > Pretty much, and that's considering unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US. I think you may be talking beyond your knowledge here. Unions in the Nordics are incredibly strong with clear majorities in at least Denmark and Sweden (I'll let someone else chime in on Norway).
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    I was wrong to generalize. What I meant was the unions in Europe where I am(Austria) are weaker than in the US since they're too nice and non confrontational resulting in loosing at their own interests.
    - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
      Respectfully, I don’t think you know what you are talking about. There are no comic book mafia labour unions with no show contracts, but employees’ rights in Austria are monumentally better in almost every way compared to the US.
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Please, don't move the goalposts, I was comparing unions' power not workers' rights, tow deferent things. Just look how useless the IT union in Austria was with it's salary increases below inflation. You know what would have helped with their negotiations? The right to strike and let IT infra fall apart for a day, but oh wait, they're not allowed to by law. Unions in the US are a lot more confrontational than in Austria. But since you opened that can of worms, some companies in Austria will fire you on the spot if you talk about starting a company union(Betreibsrat) because in Austria you have no workers protection against being fired for no reason, even while you're on sick leave. Even colleagues from the US were shocked on how easy it is for them to get fired here when back home they could have sued for unfair dismissal, but here they were told they have no grounds because the employer can terminate you any time for any reason. Another mate, got sued by his employer since the IT infra he was in charge of crashed while he was sick in hospital and the employer could find him liable for the damages by Austrian labor law. In Austria, not the US. And let's not talk about the infamous 'all-in' contracts some companies use to get you to work unpaid overtime. Now tell me more about these amazing workers' rights in Austria.
        theyinwhy 3y ago
        I am not an Austrian but what I found online is very different to what you are writing. - Unions bargaining for everyone, including non-members. Where on earth do you have something like that? - IT KV giving everyone a yearly raise instead of only raising the minimum income - Also, laws against "Motivkuendigungen" seem a lot like "protection against being fired for no reason" - You have all-ins everywhere, this is not some Austrian specialty. Oh and did you hear about the new US specialty of "unlimited vacation"? It is more or less the canceling of your vacation as every vacation you take will be used against you. I fear you have no idea what a safe haven of a country you seem to be working in.
- MandieD 3y ago
  “… unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US.” Maybe in other countries, but certainly not in Germany. I grew up in the southern US, and am still astounded at how strong and effective unions are here, even in conservative Bavaria. I’m in IT, but employed under a permanent contract that was negotiated by and is enforced by IG Metall, the industrial union for all non-management employees of lots of companies, regardless of job function. For example, Germany requires that employers give 24 paid vacation days per year. The contract I signed has 30. As the post-COVID inflation spun up, they pretty quickly got us an 8% across-the-board pay increase without much drama, because they’re taken pretty seriously by management, and that’s on top of lots of little increases over the years. I don’t adore everything IG Metall does, but I have trouble even imagining a comparable situation in the US, especially the southern US.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    You're comparing the most powerful union in Germany though. There are much weaker unions in Europe. For example the IT union in Austria is super weak.
    - pinkgolem 3y ago
      But it's the relevant uni on for vw
    - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
      Why do you say the IT union is super weak in Austria? Honestly asking.
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Have you seen the results of the KV negotiations of the IT union in the last years with booming inflation?