3 ms·

UK bank online payment conditions are getting ridiculous

20 points by chrisjj 3y ago

Today I went to pay Vodafone via website - from account at bank Lloyds which required me to agree that I had "checked independent reviews to make sure the website is reliable" before allowing the transaction. I guess we'll have to take screen shots of those reviews for when the bank holds us liable for recipient crookery... This kind of thing is simply banks pushing their security costs and liabilities on to customers.

throwaway598 3y ago
So if some websites say v0d4f0n3.com is the site to go to, that's endorsed by Lloyds? Have they thought this out? Does anyone at the FCA read HN? (I think some do.)
chatmasta 3y ago
Vodafone PayPal payment was broken for two months because of a frontend coding error until I sent it to them on Twitter, at which point they fixed it within a day.
JSDevOps 3y ago
It’s actually a hindrance to normal every day users whilst scammers seem to have no issue getting money out.
bruce511 3y ago
I recently made a big purchase (around $8000) from a website which I'd not heard of, or interacted with, before. It was pretty stressful. I did the obvious research, reviews, streetview, even phoned them, but all that can be faked if they try hard enough. Fortunately they are legit, and I was reasonably sure they were before I clicked on "buy". I did discount a similar site because I wasn't convinced. My mom is not a techie. She doesn't necessarily think of "fake sites" as being a thing. So a reminder that there's fake out there is not necessarily a bad thing. (To be fair, I work at keeping her at least a bit cautious.) I don't know if it's pushing any bank costs or liabilities away. If you pay money to a scammer, I doubt the bank is liable. I'm not sure the bank can determine the legitimacy of a receiver, or tell a real transaction from a fake one.
mikhailfranco 3y ago
Ask HN Tell HN
mikhailfranco 3y ago
Yes, but the correct chain of events is: - Gov pushes their security responsibilities onto banks, and other financial institutions (including crypto exchanges LOL). - Banks make your life a real pain, as a brutal proxy for the authoritarian government that ducked their responsibility. - You have very little recourse, few alternatives, and no way to complain through automated just-hang-on-at-your-own-expense-until-bankruptcy-or-death call-centers in some remote Asian location. - Banks insist on 2FA, so now your phone is the most important device in your entire life, a single-point-of-failure between you and everlasting damnation in phoneless-2FA-purgatory, you can't even call them! - Do not have your phone stolen, or drop it in the swimming pool - you have to keep it in a safe, which you cannot do until you actually buy a safe ffs! - and then buy another phone for actually calling people. - Just hope your pre-paid time-limited balance doesn't run out, and don't even think about travelling, or moving country - if you move they will forget that they already Knew-You-as-a-Customer, and start all over again, but with less upfront trust - hell, you moved country, how is that legit!?
- chrisjj 3y ago
  > Gov pushes their security responsibilities /their/?? Hmm... Otherwise, agreed.
mikhailfranco 3y ago
Banking used to be that you walked into a small local bank, with your money and your reputation. The bank manager would shake your hand, if he trusted the second-hand reports of your honor and integrity. Then you could get a loan, or a bigger limit on your checking account. He was incentivized to be careful and thorough, but all that happened gently over the previous few months in a vibrant and talkative community, long before you walked through the door of his little bank. Of course, that is all old hat (you and the bank manager would probably wear hats on the street outside the bank). With automation comes remoteness. With remoteness comes distrust. With automation, remoteness and distrust, comes optimization for the simple case, and the impossibility of anything that strays from the One True Happy Path. There are rising sea levels, but it is a Wide Molasses Sea that is rising. Everyday life is drowning under a tide of viscous stickiness, pervading and delaying all we hope to achieve. It induces a vague techno-dystopian premonition, then occasionally, and suddenly, a sense of desperate powerlessness. The trivial small-print on a nonchalantly-ticked online form stops your life, like a blunt rusty bureaucratic stiletto pushed slowly through your wide disbelieving eye.

20 points by chrisjj 3y ago

throwaway598 3y ago

So if some websites say v0d4f0n3.com is the site to go to, that's endorsed by Lloyds? Have they thought this out? Does anyone at the FCA read HN? (I think some do.)

chatmasta 3y ago

Vodafone PayPal payment was broken for two months because of a frontend coding error until I sent it to them on Twitter, at which point they fixed it within a day.

JSDevOps 3y ago

It’s actually a hindrance to normal every day users whilst scammers seem to have no issue getting money out.

bruce511 3y ago

I recently made a big purchase (around $8000) from a website which I'd not heard of, or interacted with, before. It was pretty stressful. I did the obvious research, reviews, streetview, even phoned them, but all that can be faked if they try hard enough. Fortunately they are legit, and I was reasonably sure they were before I clicked on "buy". I did discount a similar site because I wasn't convinced. My mom is not a techie. She doesn't necessarily think of "fake sites" as being a thing. So a reminder that there's fake out there is not necessarily a bad thing. (To be fair, I work at keeping her at least a bit cautious.) I don't know if it's pushing any bank costs or liabilities away. If you pay money to a scammer, I doubt the bank is liable. I'm not sure the bank can determine the legitimacy of a receiver, or tell a real transaction from a fake one.

mikhailfranco 3y ago

Ask HN Tell HN

mikhailfranco 3y ago

Yes, but the correct chain of events is: - Gov pushes their security responsibilities onto banks, and other financial institutions (including crypto exchanges LOL). - Banks make your life a real pain, as a brutal proxy for the authoritarian government that ducked their responsibility. - You have very little recourse, few alternatives, and no way to complain through automated just-hang-on-at-your-own-expense-until-bankruptcy-or-death call-centers in some remote Asian location. - Banks insist on 2FA, so now your phone is the most important device in your entire life, a single-point-of-failure between you and everlasting damnation in phoneless-2FA-purgatory, you can't even call them! - Do not have your phone stolen, or drop it in the swimming pool - you have to keep it in a safe, which you cannot do until you actually buy a safe ffs! - and then buy another phone for actually calling people. - Just hope your pre-paid time-limited balance doesn't run out, and don't even think about travelling, or moving country - if you move they will forget that they already Knew-You-as-a-Customer, and start all over again, but with less upfront trust - hell, you moved country, how is that legit!?

chrisjj 3y ago
> Gov pushes their security responsibilities /their/?? Hmm... Otherwise, agreed.

mikhailfranco 3y ago

Banking used to be that you walked into a small local bank, with your money and your reputation. The bank manager would shake your hand, if he trusted the second-hand reports of your honor and integrity. Then you could get a loan, or a bigger limit on your checking account. He was incentivized to be careful and thorough, but all that happened gently over the previous few months in a vibrant and talkative community, long before you walked through the door of his little bank. Of course, that is all old hat (you and the bank manager would probably wear hats on the street outside the bank). With automation comes remoteness. With remoteness comes distrust. With automation, remoteness and distrust, comes optimization for the simple case, and the impossibility of anything that strays from the One True Happy Path. There are rising sea levels, but it is a Wide Molasses Sea that is rising. Everyday life is drowning under a tide of viscous stickiness, pervading and delaying all we hope to achieve. It induces a vague techno-dystopian premonition, then occasionally, and suddenly, a sense of desperate powerlessness. The trivial small-print on a nonchalantly-ticked online form stops your life, like a blunt rusty bureaucratic stiletto pushed slowly through your wide disbelieving eye.