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FreeBSD has its merits, but comparing its jails to Docker isn't entirely fair. Many applications well-suited for systems like TrueNAS often lack documentation f

by arch1e 2y ago

FreeBSD has its merits, but comparing its jails to Docker isn't entirely fair. Many applications well-suited for systems like TrueNAS often lack documentation for running within a FreeBSD jail, or on FreeBSD in general—Jellyfin is a case in point. Additionally, I recently attempted to install FreeBSD on my ThinkPad, which has an Intel Wi-Fi chip, and found that software support remains lacking. This extends to other features like Widevine, making it impossible to use streaming services such as Netflix, Prime Video, or Spotify. For FreeBSD to approach even a fraction of Linux' mainstream adoption, significant development and support improvements are necessary.

danpalmer 2y ago
Docker was primarily a UI and UX benefit, and that’s very well aligned with the market, skills, documentation, etc. I can’t imagine that the market for people that care TrueNAS is on FreeBSD, prefer Jails to Docker, and know how to set up all their software in Jails, but aren’t doing their own FreeBSD + ZFS setup from scratch and depend on TrueNAS, is more than a handful of people.
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  Hey, there are dozens of us. I got tired of how corporatized Linux has gotten a few years ago, ported a bunch of personal projects and services to FreeBSD jails, and haven't looked back. Features aren't 1:1, but slimming down my Linux hosts has massively decreased the amount of time I have to spend administrating instead of working.
- panick21_ 2y ago
  I liked TrueNAS and I liked that is was on FreeBSD. Mostly because it gave me some experiance with something other then Linux. I could do my own setup with FreeBSD but don't want to. I have the iX Mini, so it makes sense to use some version of TrueNAS.
doublerabbit 2y ago
> For FreeBSD to approach even a fraction of Linux' mainstream adoption, significant development and support improvements are necessary. Which exactly? Because this isn't a fair argument. > FreeBSD doesn't work with my WiFi chip This is because 95% of the time vendors never push support for the OS. Remember ten years ago when vendors didn't even support Linux? I recall those days when WiFi was pretty much non-existent on Linux. I'm sick of the blaming FreeBSD gets for something that they have no control over. Everything Linux can do, I can do in FreeBSD. What features are you missing from FreeBSD? Docker is always shouted the loudest; DevOp gibberish for laziness. The overhead and tech debt for Docker is atrocious, security is abysmal, but you don't need to worry about that as long you have a shiny button that starts your container. If you actually had documentation for your stack, you could run it in a jail with less-effort, more security and better performance than docker, k8 and podman combined. But this isn't FreeBSD's problem; and when it is, there's probably an alternative and a better one at that. Blame the product for not supporting thas requiring additional engineering that costs resources. > This extends to other features like Widevine, making it impossible to use streaming services such as Netflix, Prime Video, or Spotify. This isn't FreeBSD's fault nor impossible. > Widevine is a proprietary digital rights management (DRM) system developed by Google. Google is the culprit here; they could support FreeBSD but refuse to. So you can't blame FreeBSD and that FreeBSD doesn't bend over to Google is ++. I'm watching South Park right now on Paramount Plus just fine via a PreSonus Pre-Amp, with four screens on XFCE with two of those connected via daisy chaining with a glass of wine. Heck, if I turn on my TV I can instantly connect to my DNLA server that runs on my home machine in a jail. How's that for snark? Netflix and all other DRM platforms can work just fine via Google Chrome with Linux Compat installed requiring no other requirements which is pretty amazing in my eyes. [0] [0] https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser-installer https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser-installer The fact that FreeBSD has the ability to do something as cool as that makes it to my books. I can use Linux in FreeBSD, yet can't use FreeBSD in Linux without a VM? How boring. My servers in colocation have solidity in uptime, I can't fault it, but maybe I'm bias. FreeBSD is my daily driver. Server: 11:11PM up 790 days, 19:38, 8 users, load averages: 0.31, 0.32, 0.27 There's no requirement in needing to reboot, Linux, yeah I understand the need to. FreeBSD, nah. I should, but not concerned. I have multiple jails running bHyve virtual machines all with the same amount of uptime. I'm sure this will make folk froth at the mouth, why should I reboot when in the past 790 days, I've had no issues? And I'm sure CVE's exist.. for all the packages that I'm not running that would be running on Linux. Everything is isolated to a jail and with the server only running jails of the latest version of FreeBSD, that's firewalled off to the world with it's own efficient network stack and my own selection of kernel - show me Linux doing the same. PC: 11:22PM up 15 days, 3:36, 3 users, load averages: 0.53, 0.55, 0.82 Show me something where FreeBSD has been refusing on implementing. There has been a reason to why Sony, Nintendo, NASA, Apple and more have all used source of BSD to power their core of their products.

by arch1e 2y ago

danpalmer 2y ago

Docker was primarily a UI and UX benefit, and that’s very well aligned with the market, skills, documentation, etc. I can’t imagine that the market for people that care TrueNAS is on FreeBSD, prefer Jails to Docker, and know how to set up all their software in Jails, but aren’t doing their own FreeBSD + ZFS setup from scratch and depend on TrueNAS, is more than a handful of people.

washadjeffmad 2y ago
Hey, there are dozens of us. I got tired of how corporatized Linux has gotten a few years ago, ported a bunch of personal projects and services to FreeBSD jails, and haven't looked back. Features aren't 1:1, but slimming down my Linux hosts has massively decreased the amount of time I have to spend administrating instead of working.
panick21_ 2y ago
I liked TrueNAS and I liked that is was on FreeBSD. Mostly because it gave me some experiance with something other then Linux. I could do my own setup with FreeBSD but don't want to. I have the iX Mini, so it makes sense to use some version of TrueNAS.

doublerabbit 2y ago

> For FreeBSD to approach even a fraction of Linux' mainstream adoption, significant development and support improvements are necessary. Which exactly? Because this isn't a fair argument. > FreeBSD doesn't work with my WiFi chip This is because 95% of the time vendors never push support for the OS. Remember ten years ago when vendors didn't even support Linux? I recall those days when WiFi was pretty much non-existent on Linux. I'm sick of the blaming FreeBSD gets for something that they have no control over. Everything Linux can do, I can do in FreeBSD. What features are you missing from FreeBSD? Docker is always shouted the loudest; DevOp gibberish for laziness. The overhead and tech debt for Docker is atrocious, security is abysmal, but you don't need to worry about that as long you have a shiny button that starts your container. If you actually had documentation for your stack, you could run it in a jail with less-effort, more security and better performance than docker, k8 and podman combined. But this isn't FreeBSD's problem; and when it is, there's probably an alternative and a better one at that. Blame the product for not supporting thas requiring additional engineering that costs resources. > This extends to other features like Widevine, making it impossible to use streaming services such as Netflix, Prime Video, or Spotify. This isn't FreeBSD's fault nor impossible. > Widevine is a proprietary digital rights management (DRM) system developed by Google. Google is the culprit here; they could support FreeBSD but refuse to. So you can't blame FreeBSD and that FreeBSD doesn't bend over to Google is ++. I'm watching South Park right now on Paramount Plus just fine via a PreSonus Pre-Amp, with four screens on XFCE with two of those connected via daisy chaining with a glass of wine. Heck, if I turn on my TV I can instantly connect to my DNLA server that runs on my home machine in a jail. How's that for snark? Netflix and all other DRM platforms can work just fine via Google Chrome with Linux Compat installed requiring no other requirements which is pretty amazing in my eyes. [0] [0] https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser-installer https://github.com/mrclksr/linux-browser-installer The fact that FreeBSD has the ability to do something as cool as that makes it to my books. I can use Linux in FreeBSD, yet can't use FreeBSD in Linux without a VM? How boring. My servers in colocation have solidity in uptime, I can't fault it, but maybe I'm bias. FreeBSD is my daily driver. Server: 11:11PM up 790 days, 19:38, 8 users, load averages: 0.31, 0.32, 0.27 There's no requirement in needing to reboot, Linux, yeah I understand the need to. FreeBSD, nah. I should, but not concerned. I have multiple jails running bHyve virtual machines all with the same amount of uptime. I'm sure this will make folk froth at the mouth, why should I reboot when in the past 790 days, I've had no issues? And I'm sure CVE's exist.. for all the packages that I'm not running that would be running on Linux. Everything is isolated to a jail and with the server only running jails of the latest version of FreeBSD, that's firewalled off to the world with it's own efficient network stack and my own selection of kernel - show me Linux doing the same. PC: 11:22PM up 15 days, 3:36, 3 users, load averages: 0.53, 0.55, 0.82 Show me something where FreeBSD has been refusing on implementing. There has been a reason to why Sony, Nintendo, NASA, Apple and more have all used source of BSD to power their core of their products.