7 ms·

Blaming random things on "capitalism" is neither helpful nor interesting. No, this isn't the fault of capitalism. Any social system would suffer from young peop

Blaming random things on "capitalism" is neither helpful nor interesting. No, this isn't the fault of capitalism. Any social system would suffer from young people too invested in an online world. The class division doesn't even make senses, previously "anti-capitalist" we're protesting about poorer children having less access to information technology, now that capitalism has largely fixed this and nearly everyone has access to a phone, the "anti-capitalist" complain that only the rich can afford not to give their kids phones. This is literal nonsense. Capitalism isn't preventing kids from spending time outside, it even sells them what they need to do so.

licebmi__at__ 3y ago
It’s hard to imagine a scenario of young people getting pushed a skinner machine without any real pushback. But in this case, it’s possible because advertising companies can pay top bucks to the brightest minds to make their platforms as much addictive as possible, and criticism is deflected by a combination of appeal to personal responsibility, and the ideology that political collective action is bad and profit seeking is good. I guess we can find an alternative scenario, yet is hard to argue that it isn’t capitalist ideology what brought us here this time.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  Since this phenomenon is taking place at basically every part of the globe either capitalism is so all consuming that escape is not possible or it is a universal human phenomenon. Again, the same people blaming capitalism for too much phone use have in the past blamed capitalism for disadvantaging the poor by gatekeeping access to technology. The whole critique is incoherent and unhelpful. Instead of trying to find actual solutions the blame is put on a vague concept. So vague that is can cause anything, too much phones, too little phones and anything else you can imagine. It is just a very lazy thought process. The truth is that markets will always exist and that humans will always seek pleasure in unheayways, phones are just one instance, but so are drugs, online gambling, prostitution, etc. If you blame capitalism you can't solve anything, because the change required to change anything would be so great as to guarantee it will never happen.
  - licebmi__at__ 3y ago
    >Since this phenomenon is taking place at basically every part of the globe either capitalism is so all consuming that escape is not possible or it is a universal human phenomenon. Well capitalism is a global phenomenon... so? >Again, the same people blaming capitalism for too much phone use have in the past blamed capitalism for disadvantaging the poor by gatekeeping access to technology. The whole critique is incoherent and unhelpful. Instead of trying to find actual solutions the blame is put on a vague concept. So vague that is can cause anything, too much phones, too little phones and anything else you can imagine. It is just a very lazy thought process. You seem to be mixing up critiques. Complaining capitalism about the resource allocation strategy (capital owners get things first) is orthogonal to complaining about capitalism building skinner boxes in the pursuit of profit. The concept is vague if you actually don't try to put effort in understanding the critiques, as reveals thinking the critique is "too much phones". >The truth is that markets will always exist and that humans will always seek pleasure in unheayways, phones are just one instance, but so are drugs, online gambling, prostitution, etc. If you blame capitalism you can't solve anything, because the change required to change anything would be so great as to guarantee it will never happen. Markets may always exist, I believe they will, but that's still an hypothesis. What definitely hasn't always existed and I bet it won't exist forever, is the ideology of worshiping the markets. The idea that markets are efficient has not always existed, and surely the absurd idea I have read here about markets being "a form of AI" has not always existed. If you believe that markets == capitalism, yes, you cannot solve anything, but I think that applies to defenders of capitalism, not the critics.
bell-cot 3y ago
> Blaming random things on... I'm thinking that the literal $billions which have been (and are being) spent to create, operate, and endlessly optimize the child-addicting portions of today's internet are not random. And that capitalism is very much behind that.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  Capitalism is just as much behind producing bikes for children. Really sinister.
  - wizzwizz4 3y ago
    In a capitalist world, capitalism is behind everything. This isn't insightful. In the magical, post-capitalist utopia where everyone is fed and clothed and housed without having to lift a finger, and nobody is compensated for anything they do, what things would people still choose to do? People make bikes on an amateur basis, but would people addict children on an amateur basis? If you wish to defend capitalism, you should ask questions like "would people still farm, and supply others with food, in a free society without capitalism?". Y'know, the big, fundamental questions about the basic viability of a non-capitalist system. Trying to downplay capitalism's known downsides is the worst kind of apologism.
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      >In the magical, post-capitalist utopia Every question about that is irrelevant and monumentally disinteresting. People define their utopia as whatever society doesn't have the problems they imagine, arguing against that is like arguing about how magic works in a fantasy novel with the author of said world. All discussion is completely fictional and if you discover anything which doesn't fit it is immediately rectified in the other persons head. In fact the question you propose are stupid and boring. Who cares about the utopia? It is as boring as a question can possibly be, which is also why talking to "anti-capitalists" is so annoying, you are arguing against their fantasy world. Whatever objection you can have is disregarded. In Utopia problems don't exist, so whatever objection you have against the utopia is invalid by definition. "Anti-capitalists" are the most boring people in the world. >People make bikes on an amateur basis, but would people addict children on an amateur basis? In utopia bad things do not happen. So of course all children live protected in infinite joy. That is why you need to support my extremely radical and extremely specific political position, else you support everything bad in the world which is currently caused by anything, since everything is capitalism.

licebmi__at__ 3y ago

It’s hard to imagine a scenario of young people getting pushed a skinner machine without any real pushback. But in this case, it’s possible because advertising companies can pay top bucks to the brightest minds to make their platforms as much addictive as possible, and criticism is deflected by a combination of appeal to personal responsibility, and the ideology that political collective action is bad and profit seeking is good. I guess we can find an alternative scenario, yet is hard to argue that it isn’t capitalist ideology what brought us here this time.

constantcrying 3y ago
Since this phenomenon is taking place at basically every part of the globe either capitalism is so all consuming that escape is not possible or it is a universal human phenomenon. Again, the same people blaming capitalism for too much phone use have in the past blamed capitalism for disadvantaging the poor by gatekeeping access to technology. The whole critique is incoherent and unhelpful. Instead of trying to find actual solutions the blame is put on a vague concept. So vague that is can cause anything, too much phones, too little phones and anything else you can imagine. It is just a very lazy thought process. The truth is that markets will always exist and that humans will always seek pleasure in unheayways, phones are just one instance, but so are drugs, online gambling, prostitution, etc. If you blame capitalism you can't solve anything, because the change required to change anything would be so great as to guarantee it will never happen.
- licebmi__at__ 3y ago
  >Since this phenomenon is taking place at basically every part of the globe either capitalism is so all consuming that escape is not possible or it is a universal human phenomenon. Well capitalism is a global phenomenon... so? >Again, the same people blaming capitalism for too much phone use have in the past blamed capitalism for disadvantaging the poor by gatekeeping access to technology. The whole critique is incoherent and unhelpful. Instead of trying to find actual solutions the blame is put on a vague concept. So vague that is can cause anything, too much phones, too little phones and anything else you can imagine. It is just a very lazy thought process. You seem to be mixing up critiques. Complaining capitalism about the resource allocation strategy (capital owners get things first) is orthogonal to complaining about capitalism building skinner boxes in the pursuit of profit. The concept is vague if you actually don't try to put effort in understanding the critiques, as reveals thinking the critique is "too much phones". >The truth is that markets will always exist and that humans will always seek pleasure in unheayways, phones are just one instance, but so are drugs, online gambling, prostitution, etc. If you blame capitalism you can't solve anything, because the change required to change anything would be so great as to guarantee it will never happen. Markets may always exist, I believe they will, but that's still an hypothesis. What definitely hasn't always existed and I bet it won't exist forever, is the ideology of worshiping the markets. The idea that markets are efficient has not always existed, and surely the absurd idea I have read here about markets being "a form of AI" has not always existed. If you believe that markets == capitalism, yes, you cannot solve anything, but I think that applies to defenders of capitalism, not the critics.

bell-cot 3y ago

> Blaming random things on... I'm thinking that the literal $billions which have been (and are being) spent to create, operate, and endlessly optimize the child-addicting portions of today's internet are not random. And that capitalism is very much behind that.

constantcrying 3y ago
Capitalism is just as much behind producing bikes for children. Really sinister.
- wizzwizz4 3y ago
  In a capitalist world, capitalism is behind everything. This isn't insightful. In the magical, post-capitalist utopia where everyone is fed and clothed and housed without having to lift a finger, and nobody is compensated for anything they do, what things would people still choose to do? People make bikes on an amateur basis, but would people addict children on an amateur basis? If you wish to defend capitalism, you should ask questions like "would people still farm, and supply others with food, in a free society without capitalism?". Y'know, the big, fundamental questions about the basic viability of a non-capitalist system. Trying to downplay capitalism's known downsides is the worst kind of apologism.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    >In the magical, post-capitalist utopia Every question about that is irrelevant and monumentally disinteresting. People define their utopia as whatever society doesn't have the problems they imagine, arguing against that is like arguing about how magic works in a fantasy novel with the author of said world. All discussion is completely fictional and if you discover anything which doesn't fit it is immediately rectified in the other persons head. In fact the question you propose are stupid and boring. Who cares about the utopia? It is as boring as a question can possibly be, which is also why talking to "anti-capitalists" is so annoying, you are arguing against their fantasy world. Whatever objection you can have is disregarded. In Utopia problems don't exist, so whatever objection you have against the utopia is invalid by definition. "Anti-capitalists" are the most boring people in the world. >People make bikes on an amateur basis, but would people addict children on an amateur basis? In utopia bad things do not happen. So of course all children live protected in infinite joy. That is why you need to support my extremely radical and extremely specific political position, else you support everything bad in the world which is currently caused by anything, since everything is capitalism.