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Do you have more stuff I could read about the swords? I've heard stuff like "Japanese swords are the best" any number of times too and had a hard time believing

by rendaw 3y ago

Do you have more stuff I could read about the swords? I've heard stuff like "Japanese swords are the best" any number of times too and had a hard time believing it, and historically I'm not sure there'd be any markets where they were competing, but I couldn't find any real information when I searched.

graemep 3y ago
I learned a lot from these Youtube videos. One is HEMA teacher and sword dealer and discusses pros and cons as a weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8a7gpoSPbY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8a7gpoSPbY the other has details about how it was made and a link to a paper about the steel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1z6-h7XACg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1z6-h7XACg
rrr_oh_man 3y ago
Five links from the only good place on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3btp60/why_does_everyone_believe_katanas_are_superior_to/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3btp60/why_d... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ge3ew/why_are_people_generally_interested_in_the_katana/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ge3ew/why_a... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qd1x2/where_does_katanas_are_better_view_comes_from/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qd1x2/where... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1vjzpa/was_the_katana_as_high_quality_as_people_say_it_is/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1vjzpa/was_t... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1rr0qj/were_katanas_really_that_great/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1rr0qj/were_...
- adrian_b 3y ago
  While most that is said there is correct, some comments exaggerate in the opposite sense, by downplaying the real higher quality of the Japanese swords in comparison with the contemporaneous swords of the 19th century (when most Westerners became aware of them). Unlike what some say there, the fascination of Westerners for Japanese swords has not started after WWII. Already during the 19th century, the first Europeans and Americans who could visit Japan were all extremely impressed with the Japanese swords, as demonstrated in test cuts but also by cutting parts of human bodies in some incidents. Even if in the more distant past there have been many places where swords of very high quality had been made, e.g. the Toledo swords or the Damascus swords, by the time of the 19th century such techniques had been forgotten for a long time and the remaining production of swords was oriented to the mass production of cheap but low quality swords. Such swords were more resistant to mishandling than the Japanese swords, but they could not compete in hardness and sharpness. The same travellers who were impressed in Japan by the Japanese swords were not impressed at all by the swords encountered in the other countries of the region, e.g. by the Chinese swords. At least by the time of the 19th century, in no other place were there smiths willing to spend so much time with the sharpening and polishing of extra hard steel. Even today, when everybody knows modern metallurgy, using Japanese kitchen knives is a very different experience from using European kitchen knives (at least for me, one much more pleasant), due to the Japanese preference for maximum hardness and sharpness, despite the fact that such blades require much more care during use and maintenance.
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    > At least by the time of the 19th century, in no other place were there smiths willing to spend so much time with the sharpening and polishing of extra hard steel. Because the rest of the world used rifles as a battlefield weapon, maybe.
    - BalinKing 3y ago
      Didn't firearms play a major role in the establishment of the Tokugawa shogunate, as early as the beginning of the 1600s? I'm pretty sure that Japanese battles being sword-only is just a pop culture trope.
00N8 3y ago
This YouTube channel has a lot of good info about different historical swords https://www.youtube.com/@scholagladiatoria https://www.youtube.com/@scholagladiatoria - pretty sure he covers the difference in metallurgy between Japanese & European swords The main thing I've heard is that in Europe all the best swords used spring steel, which is hard enough to cut really well while also being able to flex without getting chipped, broken or bent. Japanese smiths couldn't make spring steel for various reasons, so as a workaround they used differential hardening, etc. to make the cutting edge super hard, while the back & sides ended up more ductile. It works pretty well, but the cutting face is still a little bit brittle & the sword as a whole ends up heavier & vulnerable to getting bent b/c it doesn't snap back into shape like spring steel would

by rendaw 3y ago

graemep 3y ago

I learned a lot from these Youtube videos. One is HEMA teacher and sword dealer and discusses pros and cons as a weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8a7gpoSPbY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8a7gpoSPbY the other has details about how it was made and a link to a paper about the steel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1z6-h7XACg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1z6-h7XACg

rrr_oh_man 3y ago

Five links from the only good place on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3btp60/why_does_everyone_believe_katanas_are_superior_to/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3btp60/why_d... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ge3ew/why_are_people_generally_interested_in_the_katana/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2ge3ew/why_a... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qd1x2/where_does_katanas_are_better_view_comes_from/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1qd1x2/where... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1vjzpa/was_the_katana_as_high_quality_as_people_say_it_is/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1vjzpa/was_t... https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1rr0qj/were_katanas_really_that_great/ https://old.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1rr0qj/were_...

adrian_b 3y ago
While most that is said there is correct, some comments exaggerate in the opposite sense, by downplaying the real higher quality of the Japanese swords in comparison with the contemporaneous swords of the 19th century (when most Westerners became aware of them). Unlike what some say there, the fascination of Westerners for Japanese swords has not started after WWII. Already during the 19th century, the first Europeans and Americans who could visit Japan were all extremely impressed with the Japanese swords, as demonstrated in test cuts but also by cutting parts of human bodies in some incidents. Even if in the more distant past there have been many places where swords of very high quality had been made, e.g. the Toledo swords or the Damascus swords, by the time of the 19th century such techniques had been forgotten for a long time and the remaining production of swords was oriented to the mass production of cheap but low quality swords. Such swords were more resistant to mishandling than the Japanese swords, but they could not compete in hardness and sharpness. The same travellers who were impressed in Japan by the Japanese swords were not impressed at all by the swords encountered in the other countries of the region, e.g. by the Chinese swords. At least by the time of the 19th century, in no other place were there smiths willing to spend so much time with the sharpening and polishing of extra hard steel. Even today, when everybody knows modern metallurgy, using Japanese kitchen knives is a very different experience from using European kitchen knives (at least for me, one much more pleasant), due to the Japanese preference for maximum hardness and sharpness, despite the fact that such blades require much more care during use and maintenance.
- rrr_oh_man 3y ago
  > At least by the time of the 19th century, in no other place were there smiths willing to spend so much time with the sharpening and polishing of extra hard steel. Because the rest of the world used rifles as a battlefield weapon, maybe.
  - BalinKing 3y ago
    Didn't firearms play a major role in the establishment of the Tokugawa shogunate, as early as the beginning of the 1600s? I'm pretty sure that Japanese battles being sword-only is just a pop culture trope.

00N8 3y ago

This YouTube channel has a lot of good info about different historical swords https://www.youtube.com/@scholagladiatoria https://www.youtube.com/@scholagladiatoria - pretty sure he covers the difference in metallurgy between Japanese & European swords The main thing I've heard is that in Europe all the best swords used spring steel, which is hard enough to cut really well while also being able to flex without getting chipped, broken or bent. Japanese smiths couldn't make spring steel for various reasons, so as a workaround they used differential hardening, etc. to make the cutting edge super hard, while the back & sides ended up more ductile. It works pretty well, but the cutting face is still a little bit brittle & the sword as a whole ends up heavier & vulnerable to getting bent b/c it doesn't snap back into shape like spring steel would