6 ms·

Volkswagen workers vote overwhelmingly to join the UAW

153 points by danans 3y ago

lucas_membrane 3y ago
Volkswagen expected the plant to be unionized when they were planning it, and it was OK about that. However, the local political leaders in power let it be known that they would not offer VW various incentives for locating the plant in TN if it was to be unionized, presumably because union workers are much more inclined to vote for, and unions much more inclined to contribute to the opposite party. There are three other large non-union auto plants in Tennessee and two in neighboring states. The UAW certainly thinks that the VW plant will demonstrate the advantage of collective bargaining to workers in those other plants.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- nytesky 3y ago
  I thought part of the attraction was “right to work” https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/right_to_work_state#:~:text=A%20state%20that%20has%20a,of%20the%20representation%20in%20negotiation https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/right_to_work_state#:~:text=.... made the unions far more fragile?
  - MithrilTuxedo 3y ago
    The theory may be premised on false beliefs about unions.
  - cool_dude85 3y ago
    It does make things tougher financially for the union but certainly still doable. Especially if you have a big national like UAW that can step in if need be. My guess would be if 70% voted in favor you'd see around that amount paying dues.
- ItCouldBeWorse 3y ago
  Did the union gets seats in the board of directors - as they have in germany?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Applejinx 3y ago
  If I understand correctly, German law REQUIRES labor to be represented on the board, so it's interesting that they were able to set up a plant in Tennessee in the first place when they could not comply with German law doing so. This in no way upsets Volkswagen, in other words. It's normal.
  - avianlyric 3y ago
    It seems to be upsetting VW's local US management[1], even if their German based management might be quietly pleased with this outcome. [1] https://labornotes.org/blogs/2019/06/volkswagen-declares-war-against-works-council-and-german-union https://labornotes.org/blogs/2019/06/volkswagen-declares-war...
    - jwagenet 3y ago
      Based on that article, European management seems to be pushing against US unionization too (installing anti union local ceo, etc)
    - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
      Anecdotally, I have not come across any German, Austrian, or Swiss CEO who liked unions.
      - Rinzler89 3y ago
        Pretty much, and that's considering unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US. A lot of union busting goes in in Austria even if unions are legal. Austrian Antron Paar is notorious for firing everyone who voices about starting a union. So I have no idea why grandparent and other commenters on HN, would assume VW would be "silently happy" to see more unions, when I'm pretty sure they're not that happy about already having one in Germany but they have to tolerate it because it's the law there, but deep down they'd rather not have any at all as that's how businesses role.
        emptysongglass 3y ago
Log_out_ 3y ago
Well, naturally, same as in Germany.
- hash872 3y ago
  Eh. Sectoral bargaining is very very different from the much more-confrontational US model where individual firms unionize, to the extent that I don't really think they should even be in the same category as each other. In an alternate history sectorally bargained US, auto workers might actually have lower wages than UAW workers do today because the manufacturing industry sectoral union wants to have a more competitive export sector. They are just two completely different models of not just unionization but how to organize society and have labor-corporate-government relations, so it's not helpful to compare them
specialist 3y ago
I was surprised at the time that Volkswagen's labor stakeholders in the EU permitted non-union shops elsewhere. A solid win. For future, I support sectorial bargaining, to level the battlefield. (Idle thought: Perhaps UBI would serve same purpose.)
- avianlyric 3y ago
  VW runs a "Works Council" for the German plans, which is basically a union, except it's funded by the company rather than union dues. As it happens it's illegal for companies to contribute any financial support to a labor organisation in the US [1]. So while VW originally wanted a union, and "Work Council" type setup when they came to the US. Local law basically made it illegal for VW to do that. Not only that, but the local politicians seemed to have fought tooth and nail to discourage VW workers from unionising. It also seems that since the plant was originally setup, US based management have brought their strong dislike of unions to the table. So while VW didn't try to prevent unionisation originally, in more recent years their US management has made it very clear they don't want unions, and also don't like the "Works Councils" that VW operates elsewhere. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-workers-reject-forming-a-union.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-worke...
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    And the US VW management is not under the control of the German VW management who own the US subsidiary? Therefore the anti-union actions from the US management come with the blessing or even the order of the German management?
    - Wytwwww 3y ago
      How is not allowing the company to directly fund unions "anti-union"? It's the opposite if anything, it keeps them independent and prevents them from being coopted and influenced by management (after all UAW seems to be generally more effective than German unions).
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
This year has been absolutely amazing for Union drives: https://aflcio.org/formaunion/union-organizing-wins https://aflcio.org/formaunion/union-organizing-wins Anyone who is rightfully dissatisfied with the share of value they own compared to capital should be unionizing to seize the means from them
- kbolino 3y ago
  Growing tensions with the PRC have been essential for this. If VW had to compete with BYD, I doubt the former would survive.
  - mattmaroon 3y ago
    Elon is right, tariffs are going to be necessary if we don’t want to cede the auto industry to China, and I cannot imagine we do. It’s really hard to compete with nearly slave labor.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      That same slave labor is the reason why so many western companies moved their factories to China in the first place form 1978 when China open to international business and leaving a working class of people without jobs, and VW was one of the first to open a factory there. Funny how we never saw the usage of Chinese slave labor as an issue warranting tariffs when it made western companies huge profits and leaving westerners jobless, but only when they have to face with the new Chinese competitors and loose profits do they cry wolf. Hypocrisy much?
      - mattmaroon 3y ago
        I’m not sure it’s hypocrisy so much as pure self-interest. It would be hypocrisy if the complaint was actually about the condition of Chinese workers. Few really care about that unless they’re jumping out of windows, and most not even then. In both cases, it’s just capitalists wanting to make money. It may be awful but it’s at least consistent.
MasPlan 3y ago
Such unionization also has significant spill-over effect on non-unionized workers, which improves their outcomes also (https://www.nominalnews.com/p/unions-strike-action-and-the-economy https://www.nominalnews.com/p/unions-strike-action-and-the-e...). It's good to see this shift as it also improves outcomes for consumers.
nine_zeros 3y ago
Saw how comfortable and respectful unionized jobs are when my wife had a medical condition. At my tech company, they'll try to create fake narratives to PIP you out. Unions are totally worth it when there is abuse of power.
- srockets 3y ago
  s/abuse of power/imbalance in power/
  - loa_in_ 3y ago
    Imbalance of power is almost universal, but the abuse of it isn't necessarily so.
ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
Good for them. More shops should be unionized.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
[dupe] Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40094264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40094264
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
I found abook is the best gift, particularly when it includes a bookmark that is a sufficiently thick envelope.

153 points by danans 3y ago

Volkswagen expected the plant to be unionized when they were planning it, and it was OK about that. However, the local political leaders in power let it be known that they would not offer VW various incentives for locating the plant in TN if it was to be unionized, presumably because union workers are much more inclined to vote for, and unions much more inclined to contribute to the opposite party. There are three other large non-union auto plants in Tennessee and two in neighboring states. The UAW certainly thinks that the VW plant will demonstrate the advantage of collective bargaining to workers in those other plants.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nytesky 3y ago
I thought part of the attraction was “right to work” https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/right_to_work_state#:~:text=A%20state%20that%20has%20a,of%20the%20representation%20in%20negotiation https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/right_to_work_state#:~:text=.... made the unions far more fragile?
- MithrilTuxedo 3y ago
  The theory may be premised on false beliefs about unions.
- cool_dude85 3y ago
  It does make things tougher financially for the union but certainly still doable. Especially if you have a big national like UAW that can step in if need be. My guess would be if 70% voted in favor you'd see around that amount paying dues.
ItCouldBeWorse 3y ago
Did the union gets seats in the board of directors - as they have in germany?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Applejinx 3y ago
If I understand correctly, German law REQUIRES labor to be represented on the board, so it's interesting that they were able to set up a plant in Tennessee in the first place when they could not comply with German law doing so. This in no way upsets Volkswagen, in other words. It's normal.
- avianlyric 3y ago
  It seems to be upsetting VW's local US management[1], even if their German based management might be quietly pleased with this outcome. [1] https://labornotes.org/blogs/2019/06/volkswagen-declares-war-against-works-council-and-german-union https://labornotes.org/blogs/2019/06/volkswagen-declares-war...
  - jwagenet 3y ago
    Based on that article, European management seems to be pushing against US unionization too (installing anti union local ceo, etc)
  - rrr_oh_man 3y ago
    Anecdotally, I have not come across any German, Austrian, or Swiss CEO who liked unions.
    - Rinzler89 3y ago
      Pretty much, and that's considering unions in Europe are a lot weaker than in the US. A lot of union busting goes in in Austria even if unions are legal. Austrian Antron Paar is notorious for firing everyone who voices about starting a union. So I have no idea why grandparent and other commenters on HN, would assume VW would be "silently happy" to see more unions, when I'm pretty sure they're not that happy about already having one in Germany but they have to tolerate it because it's the law there, but deep down they'd rather not have any at all as that's how businesses role.
      - emptysongglass 3y ago

Log_out_ 3y ago

Well, naturally, same as in Germany.

hash872 3y ago
Eh. Sectoral bargaining is very very different from the much more-confrontational US model where individual firms unionize, to the extent that I don't really think they should even be in the same category as each other. In an alternate history sectorally bargained US, auto workers might actually have lower wages than UAW workers do today because the manufacturing industry sectoral union wants to have a more competitive export sector. They are just two completely different models of not just unionization but how to organize society and have labor-corporate-government relations, so it's not helpful to compare them

specialist 3y ago

I was surprised at the time that Volkswagen's labor stakeholders in the EU permitted non-union shops elsewhere. A solid win. For future, I support sectorial bargaining, to level the battlefield. (Idle thought: Perhaps UBI would serve same purpose.)

avianlyric 3y ago
VW runs a "Works Council" for the German plans, which is basically a union, except it's funded by the company rather than union dues. As it happens it's illegal for companies to contribute any financial support to a labor organisation in the US [1]. So while VW originally wanted a union, and "Work Council" type setup when they came to the US. Local law basically made it illegal for VW to do that. Not only that, but the local politicians seemed to have fought tooth and nail to discourage VW workers from unionising. It also seems that since the plant was originally setup, US based management have brought their strong dislike of unions to the table. So while VW didn't try to prevent unionisation originally, in more recent years their US management has made it very clear they don't want unions, and also don't like the "Works Councils" that VW operates elsewhere. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-workers-reject-forming-a-union.html https://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/15/business/volkswagen-worke...
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  And the US VW management is not under the control of the German VW management who own the US subsidiary? Therefore the anti-union actions from the US management come with the blessing or even the order of the German management?
  - Wytwwww 3y ago
    How is not allowing the company to directly fund unions "anti-union"? It's the opposite if anything, it keeps them independent and prevents them from being coopted and influenced by management (after all UAW seems to be generally more effective than German unions).

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

This year has been absolutely amazing for Union drives: https://aflcio.org/formaunion/union-organizing-wins https://aflcio.org/formaunion/union-organizing-wins Anyone who is rightfully dissatisfied with the share of value they own compared to capital should be unionizing to seize the means from them

kbolino 3y ago
Growing tensions with the PRC have been essential for this. If VW had to compete with BYD, I doubt the former would survive.
- mattmaroon 3y ago
  Elon is right, tariffs are going to be necessary if we don’t want to cede the auto industry to China, and I cannot imagine we do. It’s really hard to compete with nearly slave labor.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    That same slave labor is the reason why so many western companies moved their factories to China in the first place form 1978 when China open to international business and leaving a working class of people without jobs, and VW was one of the first to open a factory there. Funny how we never saw the usage of Chinese slave labor as an issue warranting tariffs when it made western companies huge profits and leaving westerners jobless, but only when they have to face with the new Chinese competitors and loose profits do they cry wolf. Hypocrisy much?
    - mattmaroon 3y ago
      I’m not sure it’s hypocrisy so much as pure self-interest. It would be hypocrisy if the complaint was actually about the condition of Chinese workers. Few really care about that unless they’re jumping out of windows, and most not even then. In both cases, it’s just capitalists wanting to make money. It may be awful but it’s at least consistent.

MasPlan 3y ago

Such unionization also has significant spill-over effect on non-unionized workers, which improves their outcomes also (https://www.nominalnews.com/p/unions-strike-action-and-the-economy https://www.nominalnews.com/p/unions-strike-action-and-the-e...). It's good to see this shift as it also improves outcomes for consumers.

nine_zeros 3y ago

Saw how comfortable and respectful unionized jobs are when my wife had a medical condition. At my tech company, they'll try to create fake narratives to PIP you out. Unions are totally worth it when there is abuse of power.

srockets 3y ago
s/abuse of power/imbalance in power/
- loa_in_ 3y ago
  Imbalance of power is almost universal, but the abuse of it isn't necessarily so.

ThrowawayTestr 3y ago

Good for them. More shops should be unionized.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

[dupe] Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40094264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40094264

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago

I found abook is the best gift, particularly when it includes a bookmark that is a sufficiently thick envelope.