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What you’re suggesting is a non democratic dystopic nightmare. For example, in your world, as long as enough people agree with me, I can decide that the couch

What you’re suggesting is a non democratic dystopic nightmare. For example, in your world, as long as enough people agree with me, I can decide that the couch in your living room should actually be in the kitchen. After all, one of the most widespread place in the world is your housing and in todays world it’s fundamentally undemocratic. But simply sticking to companies/businesses, how are startups supposed to work? You start a business, hire 2 people to help you out, and suddenly they can democratically take over the entire company? How is that a solution to anything?

SpecialistK 2y ago
> as long as enough people agree with me, I can decide that the couch in your living room should actually be in the kitchen. de Tocqueville spoke on this in the 19th century, and highlights exactly why liberal democracy has codified bills of rights limiting the scope of what the masses can enforce on others.
berdario 2y ago
> For example, in your world, as long as enough people agree with me, I can decide that the couch in your living room should actually be in the kitchen. After all, one of the most widespread place in the world is your housing and in todays world it’s fundamentally undemocratic You should learn about the difference between personal property and private property. Having democratic control of what's currently private, non-personal property has clear benefits to society which obviously don't apply to personal property. Arguing that people would want to encroach on your rights to enjoy personal property is a big strawman. > You start a business, hire 2 people to help you out, and suddenly they can democratically take over the entire company? How to get from our current situation A, to our democratic utopia B is of course not something that we can make justice to in a brief comment, but: Instead of thinking "hire 2 people", if you need support of more workers think: "cooperative" If instead of support from more workers what you need is capital investment for the public good, think of partial state-ownership in your enterprise (which would be a mean to ensure oversight and making sure that funds are not wasted... Which should already be the case when we talk about subsidies and state grants in our society)
rakoo 2y ago
Adding to the sibling comment: > as long as enough people agree with me You need to learn about the different decisions methods. Votes is actually the worst because it divides people between opposing groups. Before voting, it is always better to reach for consentment (everyone agrees), and if not, consensus (noone strongly disagrees). Rules of the society have to be set by these methods first. > But simply sticking to companies/businesses, how are startups supposed to work? Why are startups suppososed to work ? Do they help the democracy, or the people in it ? Why does a startup need capital ? Who owns the capital ? Why do people need a salary ? The capitalist system is the reason startups are what they are. In any democratic system where resources are shared, an assembly of people working on something wouldn't struggle like that.

SpecialistK 2y ago

> as long as enough people agree with me, I can decide that the couch in your living room should actually be in the kitchen. de Tocqueville spoke on this in the 19th century, and highlights exactly why liberal democracy has codified bills of rights limiting the scope of what the masses can enforce on others.

berdario 2y ago

> For example, in your world, as long as enough people agree with me, I can decide that the couch in your living room should actually be in the kitchen. After all, one of the most widespread place in the world is your housing and in todays world it’s fundamentally undemocratic You should learn about the difference between personal property and private property. Having democratic control of what's currently private, non-personal property has clear benefits to society which obviously don't apply to personal property. Arguing that people would want to encroach on your rights to enjoy personal property is a big strawman. > You start a business, hire 2 people to help you out, and suddenly they can democratically take over the entire company? How to get from our current situation A, to our democratic utopia B is of course not something that we can make justice to in a brief comment, but: Instead of thinking "hire 2 people", if you need support of more workers think: "cooperative" If instead of support from more workers what you need is capital investment for the public good, think of partial state-ownership in your enterprise (which would be a mean to ensure oversight and making sure that funds are not wasted... Which should already be the case when we talk about subsidies and state grants in our society)

rakoo 2y ago

Adding to the sibling comment: > as long as enough people agree with me You need to learn about the different decisions methods. Votes is actually the worst because it divides people between opposing groups. Before voting, it is always better to reach for consentment (everyone agrees), and if not, consensus (noone strongly disagrees). Rules of the society have to be set by these methods first. > But simply sticking to companies/businesses, how are startups supposed to work? Why are startups suppososed to work ? Do they help the democracy, or the people in it ? Why does a startup need capital ? Who owns the capital ? Why do people need a salary ? The capitalist system is the reason startups are what they are. In any democratic system where resources are shared, an assembly of people working on something wouldn't struggle like that.