4 ms·

Another good argument to reintroduce apex predators. Lyme and prion disease are nasty, and the US deer population is riddled with it.

Faaak 3y ago
Sorry if this seems dumb, but how can apex fix cjd?
- smallnix 3y ago
  Perhaps what they meant was that CWD makes the infected animals more likely to be eaten. Then the apex would, over time, kill the affected subpopulation. Not sure that this was meant and if that even makes sense.
- graemep 3y ago
  Kill and eat the sick, reducing the spread of the disease.
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  Culling is vital to healthy populations and balanced ecosystems. Animals don't have medicine, so the sick or diseased amongst them can spread susceptibility to illness more readily, over time making groups more genetically or immunologically prone in a way that could lead to destabilization, become vectors for contamination (some cancers are contagious, like in dogs, and prions don't break down easily, making them true ecohazards), or end up as vectors as they contact other animal populations (HIV and swine flu were non-human origin). Predators also encourage migration of herds, so deer won't consume an environment to depletion, including crops. Predation is nature's free labor!
- CrimsonCape 3y ago
  There's a study that showed mountain lion (puma) can eat and digest CWD infected deer meat resulting in > 95% removal of prions. Don't quote that number though, some googling should find the study.
Reubend 3y ago
That makes a lot of sense, except for the possibility of infecting the predators. What if they end up as a stepping stone to infect humans as well? If deer to human transmission is truly possible, then I would be worried about the possibilities here.
- mosselman 3y ago
  How would the wolves infect the humans though?
  - washadjeffmad 3y ago
    Lycanthropic vector.
    - thrill 3y ago
      Testing is hard because it only becomes evident once a month.
  - NikkiA 3y ago
    Canis lupus to Canis lupus familiaris transmission is pretty much guaranteed to be easy.
JPKab 3y ago
Apex predators can help, but in places like New Jersey (and hell, the entire Accela corridor) deer are incredibly overpopulated in places too dense with humans for apex predators to tolerate. In those places, we need aggressive bow hunting and culling. But the very noisy and politically powerful "don't shoot Bambi" crowd prevents this. You get sick deer and forests entirely devoid of saplings, and therefore at risk.
- bitxbitxbitcoin 3y ago
  Hear hear. Hunting is ethical management. There are people willfully ignorant to that.
- mgarfias 3y ago
  Screw the bow. Get a suppressed bolt action .300 blackout or 8.6 blackout. The bow will make about as much noise.
  - throwaway_e66m 3y ago
    Good luck with that suppressor in New Jersey [1]. Regarding the cartridge, while I generally prefer high velocity projectiles for whitetails without the silencer, when hunting suppressed I'm on board with subsonic, but IMO the best cartridge for that is big-bore (I personally use .44 magnum, bolt action like you suggest, 300 grain hollow-point at around 1050 fps). At that low velocity, you don't get much hydrostatic shockwave, so might as well make the biggest hole possible for an ethical kill. That lumbering freight train won't stop for anything, smashes right through bones. But even subsonic, it's a lot louder than a bow -- movie pew-pew just won't consistently put down something as big as a whitetail. Also note that at those low velocities, it's difficult to get bullets to consistently expand, so I do lots of terminal ballistics testing to find the optimal projectile and load. For grandparent comment, too bad you have those hunting restrictions -- where I hunt, while this year's regs aren't out yet, for the last couple of years, anyone who wants to can shoot 12 deer per year (of which at most 2 can be bucks). They're trying to put a dent in the population, for various reasons including CWD, although I frankly think it's excessive. [1]: https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/suppressor-laws-by-state#nj https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/suppressor-laws-by-st...

Faaak 3y ago

Sorry if this seems dumb, but how can apex fix cjd?

smallnix 3y ago
Perhaps what they meant was that CWD makes the infected animals more likely to be eaten. Then the apex would, over time, kill the affected subpopulation. Not sure that this was meant and if that even makes sense.
graemep 3y ago
Kill and eat the sick, reducing the spread of the disease.
washadjeffmad 3y ago
Culling is vital to healthy populations and balanced ecosystems. Animals don't have medicine, so the sick or diseased amongst them can spread susceptibility to illness more readily, over time making groups more genetically or immunologically prone in a way that could lead to destabilization, become vectors for contamination (some cancers are contagious, like in dogs, and prions don't break down easily, making them true ecohazards), or end up as vectors as they contact other animal populations (HIV and swine flu were non-human origin). Predators also encourage migration of herds, so deer won't consume an environment to depletion, including crops. Predation is nature's free labor!
CrimsonCape 3y ago
There's a study that showed mountain lion (puma) can eat and digest CWD infected deer meat resulting in > 95% removal of prions. Don't quote that number though, some googling should find the study.

Reubend 3y ago

That makes a lot of sense, except for the possibility of infecting the predators. What if they end up as a stepping stone to infect humans as well? If deer to human transmission is truly possible, then I would be worried about the possibilities here.

mosselman 3y ago
How would the wolves infect the humans though?
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  Lycanthropic vector.
  - thrill 3y ago
    Testing is hard because it only becomes evident once a month.
- NikkiA 3y ago
  Canis lupus to Canis lupus familiaris transmission is pretty much guaranteed to be easy.

JPKab 3y ago

Apex predators can help, but in places like New Jersey (and hell, the entire Accela corridor) deer are incredibly overpopulated in places too dense with humans for apex predators to tolerate. In those places, we need aggressive bow hunting and culling. But the very noisy and politically powerful "don't shoot Bambi" crowd prevents this. You get sick deer and forests entirely devoid of saplings, and therefore at risk.

bitxbitxbitcoin 3y ago
Hear hear. Hunting is ethical management. There are people willfully ignorant to that.
mgarfias 3y ago
Screw the bow. Get a suppressed bolt action .300 blackout or 8.6 blackout. The bow will make about as much noise.
- throwaway_e66m 3y ago
  Good luck with that suppressor in New Jersey [1]. Regarding the cartridge, while I generally prefer high velocity projectiles for whitetails without the silencer, when hunting suppressed I'm on board with subsonic, but IMO the best cartridge for that is big-bore (I personally use .44 magnum, bolt action like you suggest, 300 grain hollow-point at around 1050 fps). At that low velocity, you don't get much hydrostatic shockwave, so might as well make the biggest hole possible for an ethical kill. That lumbering freight train won't stop for anything, smashes right through bones. But even subsonic, it's a lot louder than a bow -- movie pew-pew just won't consistently put down something as big as a whitetail. Also note that at those low velocities, it's difficult to get bullets to consistently expand, so I do lots of terminal ballistics testing to find the optimal projectile and load. For grandparent comment, too bad you have those hunting restrictions -- where I hunt, while this year's regs aren't out yet, for the last couple of years, anyone who wants to can shoot 12 deer per year (of which at most 2 can be bucks). They're trying to put a dent in the population, for various reasons including CWD, although I frankly think it's excessive. [1]: https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/suppressor-laws-by-state#nj https://www.silencershop.com/blog/post/suppressor-laws-by-st...