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> just don't dine in places that expect you to tip. You'll be sending the message to the appropriate target, the business owners How does that work? By telepat

by Luc 14y ago

> just don't dine in places that expect you to tip. You'll be sending the message to the appropriate target, the business owners How does that work? By telepathy? > and not to the servers who have no control over the way the market is arranged. It's _exactly_ the servers that need to unionise and get this archaic system outlawed.

tptacek 14y ago
Unionization. That'll fix everything. Sounds great. My suggestion: next time you eat out at a nicer-than-average restaurant, ask the server what they think of your idea. I make a point of talking to servers, not because I'm particularly nice (I'm not) but because it's an easy way to get much better service in the future, access to tables on crowded nights, &c. I think you're going to find that restaurant servers do not see tipping as a cosmic injustice that they should pay union dues to stamp out.
- Luc 14y ago
  You're against people organising themselves democratically for a common cause? > next time you eat out at a nicer-than-average restaurant, ask the server what they think of your idea Waiters in my country make a living wage, no matter what the weather is. And they get tips, too. Waiting in the US sounds like a great deal - go work for a start-up on commission, if the business thrives you'll still be an employee, if the business falters you'll miss your rent payment.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    The belief that unions have in the last 20 years been a very bad solution to most of the US labor problems they're applied to is not, if you apply your full brain capacity to the analysis, equivalent to the belief that unions should be outlawed. I'm not sure what you think is supposed to happen when businesses falter. Are the taxpayers supposed to subsidize them?
    - emilv 14y ago
      The point is that the business owner is the one taking the risk of the business, as well as investing his money and making business decisions (including the decision to hire a server). Why should the servers take some of that risk when they are most far away from actual business decisions? why shouldn't, for example, the cook and the cleaning staff take the same risk as the servers?
      - aneth 14y ago
        As an employee, you certainly take a "risk" that your job will not last forever. You may be fired, downsized, or the company may go bankrupt. Fortunately, since we live somewhere where you can fire, downsize, and go bankrupt, there are companies willing to hire you for some period of time between when they need you and when they don't need you anymore. Otherwise, who would hire anyone if they could never fire them (here's looking at you France)? The possibility of losing a job is inherent and essential to the concept of employment.

by Luc 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago

Unionization. That'll fix everything. Sounds great. My suggestion: next time you eat out at a nicer-than-average restaurant, ask the server what they think of your idea. I make a point of talking to servers, not because I'm particularly nice (I'm not) but because it's an easy way to get much better service in the future, access to tables on crowded nights, &c. I think you're going to find that restaurant servers do not see tipping as a cosmic injustice that they should pay union dues to stamp out.

Luc 14y ago
You're against people organising themselves democratically for a common cause? > next time you eat out at a nicer-than-average restaurant, ask the server what they think of your idea Waiters in my country make a living wage, no matter what the weather is. And they get tips, too. Waiting in the US sounds like a great deal - go work for a start-up on commission, if the business thrives you'll still be an employee, if the business falters you'll miss your rent payment.
- tptacek 14y ago
  The belief that unions have in the last 20 years been a very bad solution to most of the US labor problems they're applied to is not, if you apply your full brain capacity to the analysis, equivalent to the belief that unions should be outlawed. I'm not sure what you think is supposed to happen when businesses falter. Are the taxpayers supposed to subsidize them?
  - emilv 14y ago
    The point is that the business owner is the one taking the risk of the business, as well as investing his money and making business decisions (including the decision to hire a server). Why should the servers take some of that risk when they are most far away from actual business decisions? why shouldn't, for example, the cook and the cleaning staff take the same risk as the servers?
    - aneth 14y ago
      As an employee, you certainly take a "risk" that your job will not last forever. You may be fired, downsized, or the company may go bankrupt. Fortunately, since we live somewhere where you can fire, downsize, and go bankrupt, there are companies willing to hire you for some period of time between when they need you and when they don't need you anymore. Otherwise, who would hire anyone if they could never fire them (here's looking at you France)? The possibility of losing a job is inherent and essential to the concept of employment.