4 ms·

A relevant anecdote: I unqualifiedly (being not a doctor) prescribed supplementing 400 mg of magnesium (in form of orotate or glycinate) daily to a number of vo

A relevant anecdote: I unqualifiedly (being not a doctor) prescribed supplementing 400 mg of magnesium (in form of orotate or glycinate) daily to a number of volunteers (19-39 years old, both males and females) with signs of moderate to severe burnout, some of the them having mild forms of eating, alcohol abuse and sleeping disorders. Most of them reported quick yet sustaining life-changing improvements. One of them (having a history of severe psychological trauma) reported increase in nightmares though (nevertheless she lost a fair amount of excess weight and came to looking really great now). I concluded it is probably true that we all should supplement magnesium unless we know of a specific counter-indication in a specific case.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I'm confused by your story. You say you had a number of volunteers daily, with "signs of moderate to severe burnout". Was this some sort of study? What was your role in this? As the other responder said, to say "prescribing" doesn't make sense in this context.
hiddencost 3y ago
No. You did not prescribe anything. You told them to get it. Prescribe is a word freighted with technical and legal weight, and should not be used lightly.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  You can prescribe supplements - they may have, it’s not fair to assume.
  - lazyasciiart 3y ago
    Doctors can prescribe supplements. They are saying that random not-doctors should not call it prescribing when they tell someone to do something, whatever that thing is.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Ah yes on re-reading I missed that important bit. My bad.
- hooverd 3y ago
  Nah, you should use it. Physicians need to have their wings clipped.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  They asked me for help (because they know I am an "amateur expert" in this subject), I gave them the pills and said take these and we'll see how it goes (because I know enough to reasonably assume this is very unlikely to cause serious harm in them short-term, incl. because pharmacy-sold FDA-approved supplements are meant to be proven-safe for people who lack specific counter-indications and follow the dosage manual). Surely I'm not a doctor and that's why I mention this whenever relevant, as I did here.
- TeaBrain 3y ago
  Prescribe can simply mean to advise on taking a course of action. The word is commonly associated with the medical profession, but isn't unique to it.
IAmGraydon 3y ago
Wow.
arvinsim 3y ago
I take my magnesium in the mornings most of the time because it causes me nightmares too. I noticed that if I take it in the evening, I would be okay if I took it at least 4 hours before sleeping.
clumsysmurf 3y ago
Not sure I would go with the orotate form of Mg. If someone else has the links to toxic effects, please chime in ... There are plenty of Magnesium forms to use (glycinate, taurate, malate, citrate) that are very safe. I do use Lithium Orotate because there are not that many choices: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8413749/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8413749/
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  Magnesium orotate is the form which works the best for me personally (strongest positive subjective effects). Orotic acid is itself a vitamin of a kind. It used to be called B13 but was stripped of this title once found produced by the gut microbiome (which is a questionable criteria as there still are official vitamins which are produced by the gut microbiome or parts of the body itself). Needless to say any vitamin is more or less dangerous when you supplement too much for too long. Any supplementation should be done cautiously, moderately and only in context of at least a reasonable guess (better a lab test) indicating you probably are deficient in this specific element.
wolfi1 3y ago
that's why in medicine you do trials randomized and double blind so that no one knows if it's the drug or the placebo, could have been the placebo effect after all
- Nevermark 3y ago
  We all experiment personally. I make a point of not looking for, or attributing any causality, to any immediate change. Then see how I fair over time. Obviously not a high standard, but reduces bouncing around between different regimens chasing coincidences and placebo effects. After several extended periods of taking multi-minerals and not taking them, I am convinced I get better sleep when I take them. I could add less anxiety and more, but better sleep alone could account for other benefits.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  Isn't the placebo effect mitigated by negative belief? In many experiments I conducted on myself I was extremely skeptical to the point of "I can bet this is a bullshit 'snake oil' but let's give it a try to prove just that before I can safely forget about trying this ever again" before getting surprisingly positive results for me. Similar attitude was also present in many friends I gave anything to.
  - adrianN 3y ago
    Probably no, but the research on that topic is not very good.
  - armada651 3y ago
    That doesn't work unfortunately, because even though you're skeptical you're still hoping that it might work, which is enough for the placebo effect to kick in.
    - qwerty456127 3y ago
      Nevertheless this probably is much less relevant than a full-blown drug research case where you expect to be given a product of credible bleeding-edge science worth many millions of dollars in research, already tested thoroughly and proven effective on all kinds of animals.
WaxProlix 3y ago
What sorts of timelines are we talking here? You say quick but that can mean a range of things. I've tried magnesium in the past for a couple weeks but didn't notice a change in that period that was likely attributable to it.
- qwerty456127 3y ago
  I would guess you either just have no magnesium deficiency or have some other condition which causes your symptoms unrelated to magnesium or prevents magnesium from doing its job. A couple weeks is more than enough to feel serious difference. Another chance is you are using a form of magnesium which is not the best choice for you. It generally is recommended to try different. There are many.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I'm confused by your story. You say you had a number of volunteers daily, with "signs of moderate to severe burnout". Was this some sort of study? What was your role in this? As the other responder said, to say "prescribing" doesn't make sense in this context.

hiddencost 3y ago

No. You did not prescribe anything. You told them to get it. Prescribe is a word freighted with technical and legal weight, and should not be used lightly.

arcticbull 3y ago
You can prescribe supplements - they may have, it’s not fair to assume.
- lazyasciiart 3y ago
  Doctors can prescribe supplements. They are saying that random not-doctors should not call it prescribing when they tell someone to do something, whatever that thing is.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    Ah yes on re-reading I missed that important bit. My bad.
hooverd 3y ago
Nah, you should use it. Physicians need to have their wings clipped.
qwerty456127 3y ago
They asked me for help (because they know I am an "amateur expert" in this subject), I gave them the pills and said take these and we'll see how it goes (because I know enough to reasonably assume this is very unlikely to cause serious harm in them short-term, incl. because pharmacy-sold FDA-approved supplements are meant to be proven-safe for people who lack specific counter-indications and follow the dosage manual). Surely I'm not a doctor and that's why I mention this whenever relevant, as I did here.
TeaBrain 3y ago
Prescribe can simply mean to advise on taking a course of action. The word is commonly associated with the medical profession, but isn't unique to it.

IAmGraydon 3y ago

Wow.

arvinsim 3y ago

I take my magnesium in the mornings most of the time because it causes me nightmares too. I noticed that if I take it in the evening, I would be okay if I took it at least 4 hours before sleeping.

clumsysmurf 3y ago

Not sure I would go with the orotate form of Mg. If someone else has the links to toxic effects, please chime in ... There are plenty of Magnesium forms to use (glycinate, taurate, malate, citrate) that are very safe. I do use Lithium Orotate because there are not that many choices: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8413749/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8413749/

qwerty456127 3y ago
Magnesium orotate is the form which works the best for me personally (strongest positive subjective effects). Orotic acid is itself a vitamin of a kind. It used to be called B13 but was stripped of this title once found produced by the gut microbiome (which is a questionable criteria as there still are official vitamins which are produced by the gut microbiome or parts of the body itself). Needless to say any vitamin is more or less dangerous when you supplement too much for too long. Any supplementation should be done cautiously, moderately and only in context of at least a reasonable guess (better a lab test) indicating you probably are deficient in this specific element.

wolfi1 3y ago

that's why in medicine you do trials randomized and double blind so that no one knows if it's the drug or the placebo, could have been the placebo effect after all

Nevermark 3y ago
We all experiment personally. I make a point of not looking for, or attributing any causality, to any immediate change. Then see how I fair over time. Obviously not a high standard, but reduces bouncing around between different regimens chasing coincidences and placebo effects. After several extended periods of taking multi-minerals and not taking them, I am convinced I get better sleep when I take them. I could add less anxiety and more, but better sleep alone could account for other benefits.
qwerty456127 3y ago
Isn't the placebo effect mitigated by negative belief? In many experiments I conducted on myself I was extremely skeptical to the point of "I can bet this is a bullshit 'snake oil' but let's give it a try to prove just that before I can safely forget about trying this ever again" before getting surprisingly positive results for me. Similar attitude was also present in many friends I gave anything to.
- adrianN 3y ago
  Probably no, but the research on that topic is not very good.
- armada651 3y ago
  That doesn't work unfortunately, because even though you're skeptical you're still hoping that it might work, which is enough for the placebo effect to kick in.
  - qwerty456127 3y ago
    Nevertheless this probably is much less relevant than a full-blown drug research case where you expect to be given a product of credible bleeding-edge science worth many millions of dollars in research, already tested thoroughly and proven effective on all kinds of animals.

WaxProlix 3y ago

What sorts of timelines are we talking here? You say quick but that can mean a range of things. I've tried magnesium in the past for a couple weeks but didn't notice a change in that period that was likely attributable to it.

qwerty456127 3y ago
I would guess you either just have no magnesium deficiency or have some other condition which causes your symptoms unrelated to magnesium or prevents magnesium from doing its job. A couple weeks is more than enough to feel serious difference. Another chance is you are using a form of magnesium which is not the best choice for you. It generally is recommended to try different. There are many.