5 ms·

UAW secures historic union election win at Tennessee Volkswagen plant

21 points by MilnerRoute 3y ago

ProllyInfamous 3y ago
This is so great to read! Our state governor and other local politicians ought'ta be ashamed for publicly campaigning against this wonderful unionization opportunity! Your Brother in IBEW. -- From Local3News [1]: 73% voted in favor of UAW representation [1] https://www.local3news.com/local-news/third-times-a-charm-uaw-wins-victory-at-volkswagen-in-chattanooga/article_03d9a7e0-fe83-11ee-9853-a325e089e134.html https://www.local3news.com/local-news/third-times-a-charm-ua...
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  Totally uninformed but genuine question : why is it great?
  - beanjuiceII 3y ago
    It's great for VW's competitors
    - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
      After today's vote, all VW assembly production facilities are organized/Union.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      All automakers will end up unionized (majority vote wins), and unable to offshore due to deglobalization and incentives that require they produce in the US. The “you’ll regret this” threat holds no water in the go forward macro. Mercedes, Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid are all who are left in the US. Exciting times to have some hope.
      - jjtheblunt 3y ago
        BMW south carolina?
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        I am mistaken, you are correct. BMW and Volvo both have plants in SC that haven’t unionized yet.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        If BMW and Volvo offer better benefits than UAW, why would the employees there unionize? (i don't know that they do offer better benefits, but you look like you asserted everyone would unionize...whereas the employer with adequate and preferable benefits could itself be the union, functionally)
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Without a union, you have no agency. The deal can change at anytime with no recourse. Contracts bind, but require collective bargaining.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        Does to not have agency imply the workers are fungible, replaces left cogs in a machine, unlike in other domains where “stars” exist and thereby have agency?
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        I argue there is strong evidence “stars” are lucky, not legitimately exceptional, in a majority of cases (“myth of meritocracy”). Most people cannot negotiate a better deal individually for compensation, working arrangements, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/beautiful-minds/the-role-of-luck-in-life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/beautiful-minds/the-... https://hbr.org/2021/06/dont-underestimate-the-power-of-luck-when-it-comes-to-success-in-business https://hbr.org/2021/06/dont-underestimate-the-power-of-luck... Are we optimizing for a lucky few? Or the majority? That’s the philosophical question I believe. If majority votes win union elections, and organizing is the only way to seek some power against corporate interests, the action required is obvious as a rationalist. I understand that a minority will take issue with the advantage they might have diminished or lose entirely, but by definition, stars are a minority. https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/union-workers-wealth-comparison-pay-difference https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/union-workers-wealth-compar... https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions... https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-want-unions-how-states-have-strengthened-worker-power-in-2023/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-want-unions...
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    My POV: I have been a resident of Tennessee for half my life. I have been in Chattanooga since VW first began rolling vehicles off their local lines. Additionally, I have experience both independent and as a union electrician (IBEW). I live in a lower middle class neighborhood, within 1 mile of VW's Tenn facility [so many of my neighbors work at VW]. I've had many clients employed by VW. >why is this great? VW's Chattanooga operation has been notorious for last-minute "mandatory overtime," ignoring legitimate health&safety concerns, and not actually paying that well for our local economy (despite what HQ claims). I think the greatest thing that will come of this is MUCH better healthcare for VW families [@IBEW, benefits cost the same whether 1 or 10 dependents — they actually don't suck (albeit not incredible)]. Quality of life will also improve by having safeguards in place to prevent (e.g.) forced overtime and unplanned scheduling. -- My rhetorical question about unions is this: if they really were so bad for employees, why would companies spend so much [and sometimes violate laws] attempting to prevent union organization efforts. -- To me, the greatest thing about this particular VW unionizing news is that it marks a change in demographics, here in the Deep South. People are beginning to realize just how fucked inequality entitles them [i.e. not much], so are organizing their greatest asset: time/labor.
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      That makes total sense to me; thanks for the thoughful response.
    - pxmpxm 3y ago
      I thought the universal consensus is that it's net benefit for the currently employed, where the product, company/shareholders and employment bears the cost. Zero sum game, with negative externalities. In particular, flexible employment is what allowed US to recover from covid much quicker than europe, for example.
      - asadotzler 3y ago
        If the net benefits of not having a union accrue to the company and shareholders, perhaps having a union to balance things out is a good thing. I mean, without the workers, there is no company, management, or customer. Seems the workers should get their fair share of output and if they're not they have no way to change that except to beg or quit. With a union, collective bargaining can lead to contracts that are more balanced for workers/owners and that's a good thing for everyone because those workers are consumers too who need good pay to buy a good life to drive production of good life goods and services.

21 points by MilnerRoute 3y ago

This is so great to read! Our state governor and other local politicians ought'ta be ashamed for publicly campaigning against this wonderful unionization opportunity! Your Brother in IBEW. -- From Local3News [1]: 73% voted in favor of UAW representation [1] https://www.local3news.com/local-news/third-times-a-charm-uaw-wins-victory-at-volkswagen-in-chattanooga/article_03d9a7e0-fe83-11ee-9853-a325e089e134.html https://www.local3news.com/local-news/third-times-a-charm-ua...

jjtheblunt 3y ago
Totally uninformed but genuine question : why is it great?
- beanjuiceII 3y ago
  It's great for VW's competitors
  - ProllyInfamous 3y ago
    After today's vote, all VW assembly production facilities are organized/Union.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    All automakers will end up unionized (majority vote wins), and unable to offshore due to deglobalization and incentives that require they produce in the US. The “you’ll regret this” threat holds no water in the go forward macro. Mercedes, Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid are all who are left in the US. Exciting times to have some hope.
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      BMW south carolina?
      - toomuchtodo 3y ago
        I am mistaken, you are correct. BMW and Volvo both have plants in SC that haven’t unionized yet.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        If BMW and Volvo offer better benefits than UAW, why would the employees there unionize? (i don't know that they do offer better benefits, but you look like you asserted everyone would unionize...whereas the employer with adequate and preferable benefits could itself be the union, functionally)
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        Without a union, you have no agency. The deal can change at anytime with no recourse. Contracts bind, but require collective bargaining.
        jjtheblunt 3y ago
        Does to not have agency imply the workers are fungible, replaces left cogs in a machine, unlike in other domains where “stars” exist and thereby have agency?
        toomuchtodo 3y ago
        I argue there is strong evidence “stars” are lucky, not legitimately exceptional, in a majority of cases (“myth of meritocracy”). Most people cannot negotiate a better deal individually for compensation, working arrangements, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/beautiful-minds/the-role-of-luck-in-life-success-is-far-greater-than-we-realized/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/beautiful-minds/the-... https://hbr.org/2021/06/dont-underestimate-the-power-of-luck-when-it-comes-to-success-in-business https://hbr.org/2021/06/dont-underestimate-the-power-of-luck... Are we optimizing for a lucky few? Or the majority? That’s the philosophical question I believe. If majority votes win union elections, and organizing is the only way to seek some power against corporate interests, the action required is obvious as a rationalist. I understand that a minority will take issue with the advantage they might have diminished or lose entirely, but by definition, stars are a minority. https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/union-workers-wealth-comparison-pay-difference https://www.axios.com/2024/03/20/union-workers-wealth-compar... https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions-and-the-us-economy https://home.treasury.gov/news/featured-stories/labor-unions... https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-want-unions-how-states-have-strengthened-worker-power-in-2023/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/workers-want-unions...
- ProllyInfamous 3y ago
  My POV: I have been a resident of Tennessee for half my life. I have been in Chattanooga since VW first began rolling vehicles off their local lines. Additionally, I have experience both independent and as a union electrician (IBEW). I live in a lower middle class neighborhood, within 1 mile of VW's Tenn facility [so many of my neighbors work at VW]. I've had many clients employed by VW. >why is this great? VW's Chattanooga operation has been notorious for last-minute "mandatory overtime," ignoring legitimate health&safety concerns, and not actually paying that well for our local economy (despite what HQ claims). I think the greatest thing that will come of this is MUCH better healthcare for VW families [@IBEW, benefits cost the same whether 1 or 10 dependents — they actually don't suck (albeit not incredible)]. Quality of life will also improve by having safeguards in place to prevent (e.g.) forced overtime and unplanned scheduling. -- My rhetorical question about unions is this: if they really were so bad for employees, why would companies spend so much [and sometimes violate laws] attempting to prevent union organization efforts. -- To me, the greatest thing about this particular VW unionizing news is that it marks a change in demographics, here in the Deep South. People are beginning to realize just how fucked inequality entitles them [i.e. not much], so are organizing their greatest asset: time/labor.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    That makes total sense to me; thanks for the thoughful response.
  - pxmpxm 3y ago
    I thought the universal consensus is that it's net benefit for the currently employed, where the product, company/shareholders and employment bears the cost. Zero sum game, with negative externalities. In particular, flexible employment is what allowed US to recover from covid much quicker than europe, for example.
    - asadotzler 3y ago
      If the net benefits of not having a union accrue to the company and shareholders, perhaps having a union to balance things out is a good thing. I mean, without the workers, there is no company, management, or customer. Seems the workers should get their fair share of output and if they're not they have no way to change that except to beg or quit. With a union, collective bargaining can lead to contracts that are more balanced for workers/owners and that's a good thing for everyone because those workers are consumers too who need good pay to buy a good life to drive production of good life goods and services.