4 ms·

But it's unusable in a warlike scenario. During war there is no internet...

cableshaft 3y ago
Stocks and bonds and commodities and 401ks and CDs aren't useful in that scenario either, but it doesn't stop people from putting most of their money into those.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
  Yes but techno-anarchist fetishists don’t line up to spout the immovable perfection of government-controlled fiat currency.
  - cableshaft 3y ago
    Maybe not techno-anarchists, but there's plenty of people on the internet that are loud and vocal advocates of stocks and 401ks as well (nothing against them, most of my savings are in that myself).
- kube-system 3y ago
  But they are backed up by SIPC/FDIC which is effectively backed up by the world's most powerful military. The US's financial power is strongly linked with their ability to project military power.
  - cableshaft 3y ago
    When the war has gotten so bad that there's no internet? That's what the parent was arguing (and yeah, sure, bitcoin can't really work that well without the internet). I've got a little precious metal in case of a SHTF situation, although I'm not sure how useful even that would be. People probably care more about food or fuel or maybe some pills than they do about bartering for silver or gold in that situation. Might be able to convince a few people to go for it, but still might be difficult.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      Yeah, 401ks and CDs are stores of value and not spending mechanisms, so it was a bad comparison to begin with. But physical paper cash, backed by an organization with many nukes and the means to use them, is probably the best thing to hold during war. Besides useful commodities.
      - cableshaft 3y ago
        You can buy and hold bitcoin and eventually cash it out just as you can a 401k or a CD. Now that there are bitcoin ETFs many people and organizations are treating bitcoin as if it's a store of value (whether that's wise or not is arguable, but that doesn't stop people from seeing it as such). But if there's no internet, there's no way you can eventually cash it out.
    - cdchn 3y ago
      I think the US government/military is stronger than the Internet. Shit the Internet isn't even that strong. In a real "collapse of the US government STHF situation" you're going to want to invest in beans and bullets, not crypto.
      - cableshaft 3y ago
        I guess my point is our world is so intertwined with the internet that if it permanently goes away we're pretty much in a 'the next war will be fought with sticks and stones' situation anyway, so what does it matter how well the military can defend those bonds and fiat. Re:SHTF for sure, which is why it's not really worth considering, unless you're so sure it's going to happen and you're already accumulating those beans and bullets (also nothing is stopping you from doing that while also buying other things in case it doesn't happen, or takes a lot longer to happen than you predict).
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        aforwardslash 3y ago
lowkey 3y ago
Bitcoin transactions work via satellite, ham radio, or cellphone. If there is any form of working communication you can send or receive Bitcoin. If comms are temporarily disabled, your Bitcoin is still safe on tens of thousands of nodes.
- MadnessASAP 3y ago
  Would you mind sharing any examples of somebody accepting transactions on behalf of the Bitcoin network over HAM radio? Obviously it's possible, if you can make a TCP connection over carrier pigeon, you can make it over anything. I'm curious to see a working example however.
  - lowkey 3y ago
    https://survivedoomsday.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-radio/ https://survivedoomsday.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-rad...
l0ng1nu5 3y ago
Bitcoin doesn't require internet, the blockstream satellites broadcast the block chain as well. https://blockstream.com/satellite/ https://blockstream.com/satellite/
- kube-system 3y ago
  Approximately nobody will have that during wartime either.
  - kobalsky 3y ago
    this is hilarous, I mean, there's a literal satellite constellation beaming the blockchain and the argument is "nuh-uh!" I guess that until a satellite shoots a wad of bills through your window some people won't give it credit.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      A satellite constellation is only half of a network. And a system that nobody can actually use is not a useful or functional system. Approximately nobody has a receiver for this network today. The receivers won't fall out of the sky tomorrow if war breaks out. And even if everyone did have receivers, commercial satellites are highly regulated by most nations, likely will be targeted during any future major war, and there's no guarantee they won't be coopted for other uses by their host nations. Blockstream is a tiny company and doesn't even own or operate any of these satellites. You might as well just use viasat or iridium.
- cdchn 3y ago
  No Internet required - just a $500 "Blockstream" Satellite receiver device!
  - kobalsky 3y ago
    IIRC you could build your own kit with a software defined radio device. you just needed a recycled satellite dish and some other off the shelf components.

Stocks and bonds and commodities and 401ks and CDs aren't useful in that scenario either, but it doesn't stop people from putting most of their money into those.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Yes but techno-anarchist fetishists don’t line up to spout the immovable perfection of government-controlled fiat currency.
- cableshaft 3y ago
  Maybe not techno-anarchists, but there's plenty of people on the internet that are loud and vocal advocates of stocks and 401ks as well (nothing against them, most of my savings are in that myself).
kube-system 3y ago
But they are backed up by SIPC/FDIC which is effectively backed up by the world's most powerful military. The US's financial power is strongly linked with their ability to project military power.
- cableshaft 3y ago
  When the war has gotten so bad that there's no internet? That's what the parent was arguing (and yeah, sure, bitcoin can't really work that well without the internet). I've got a little precious metal in case of a SHTF situation, although I'm not sure how useful even that would be. People probably care more about food or fuel or maybe some pills than they do about bartering for silver or gold in that situation. Might be able to convince a few people to go for it, but still might be difficult.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    Yeah, 401ks and CDs are stores of value and not spending mechanisms, so it was a bad comparison to begin with. But physical paper cash, backed by an organization with many nukes and the means to use them, is probably the best thing to hold during war. Besides useful commodities.
    - cableshaft 3y ago
      You can buy and hold bitcoin and eventually cash it out just as you can a 401k or a CD. Now that there are bitcoin ETFs many people and organizations are treating bitcoin as if it's a store of value (whether that's wise or not is arguable, but that doesn't stop people from seeing it as such). But if there's no internet, there's no way you can eventually cash it out.
  - cdchn 3y ago
    I think the US government/military is stronger than the Internet. Shit the Internet isn't even that strong. In a real "collapse of the US government STHF situation" you're going to want to invest in beans and bullets, not crypto.
    - cableshaft 3y ago
      I guess my point is our world is so intertwined with the internet that if it permanently goes away we're pretty much in a 'the next war will be fought with sticks and stones' situation anyway, so what does it matter how well the military can defend those bonds and fiat. Re:SHTF for sure, which is why it's not really worth considering, unless you're so sure it's going to happen and you're already accumulating those beans and bullets (also nothing is stopping you from doing that while also buying other things in case it doesn't happen, or takes a lot longer to happen than you predict).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - aforwardslash 3y ago

lowkey 3y ago

Bitcoin transactions work via satellite, ham radio, or cellphone. If there is any form of working communication you can send or receive Bitcoin. If comms are temporarily disabled, your Bitcoin is still safe on tens of thousands of nodes.

MadnessASAP 3y ago
Would you mind sharing any examples of somebody accepting transactions on behalf of the Bitcoin network over HAM radio? Obviously it's possible, if you can make a TCP connection over carrier pigeon, you can make it over anything. I'm curious to see a working example however.
- lowkey 3y ago
  https://survivedoomsday.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-radio/ https://survivedoomsday.com/how-to-send-bitcoin-over-ham-rad...

l0ng1nu5 3y ago

Bitcoin doesn't require internet, the blockstream satellites broadcast the block chain as well. https://blockstream.com/satellite/ https://blockstream.com/satellite/

kube-system 3y ago
Approximately nobody will have that during wartime either.
- kobalsky 3y ago
  this is hilarous, I mean, there's a literal satellite constellation beaming the blockchain and the argument is "nuh-uh!" I guess that until a satellite shoots a wad of bills through your window some people won't give it credit.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    A satellite constellation is only half of a network. And a system that nobody can actually use is not a useful or functional system. Approximately nobody has a receiver for this network today. The receivers won't fall out of the sky tomorrow if war breaks out. And even if everyone did have receivers, commercial satellites are highly regulated by most nations, likely will be targeted during any future major war, and there's no guarantee they won't be coopted for other uses by their host nations. Blockstream is a tiny company and doesn't even own or operate any of these satellites. You might as well just use viasat or iridium.
cdchn 3y ago
No Internet required - just a $500 "Blockstream" Satellite receiver device!
- kobalsky 3y ago
  IIRC you could build your own kit with a software defined radio device. you just needed a recycled satellite dish and some other off the shelf components.