4 ms·

The book Hackers was first published in 1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers:_Heroes_of_the_Computer_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers:_Her

The book Hackers was first published in 1984 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers:_Heroes_of_the_Computer_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackers:_Heroes_of_the_Compute... Jargon file was published as The Hacker's Dictionary in 1983 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon_File https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jargon_File I consider this definitive evidence that the foundational period of hacker culture was before these books were published. I'm not sure what the point of trying to shift that period forward so as to include Dennett's works is. It's neither true nor necessary.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
Shifting it forward? His first three books were published in 81, 84 and 86. I agree with you that the foundational period slightly predates these, but I don't consider the foundational period to be the same as when "hacker culture was established". I began to encounter it myself starting in about 1979 via CoEvolution Quarterly/Whole Earth Review, but it was still very, very much evolving and continued to do so in very noticeable ways as I started programming in 1984. I tend to consider the general use of IP as probably one of the main signifiers of hacker culture being established, and that was far from common in the 75-85 period (though growing rapidly).
- samatman 3y ago
  > I don't consider the foundational period to be the same as when "hacker culture was established". This is wrong by definition, is the thing. That's what foundational means: to found something is to establish its foundation. Dennett was simply not a significant part of that. The timeline isn't the reason for that, but it in fact suffices to make the case.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    I don't really agree on this distinction between foundational and established. But we can just agree to disagree on that.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    It wasn't actually my claim that Dennett had much influence on hacker culture. I was originally disputing the idea that Dennett became well known after 1992.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

Shifting it forward? His first three books were published in 81, 84 and 86. I agree with you that the foundational period slightly predates these, but I don't consider the foundational period to be the same as when "hacker culture was established". I began to encounter it myself starting in about 1979 via CoEvolution Quarterly/Whole Earth Review, but it was still very, very much evolving and continued to do so in very noticeable ways as I started programming in 1984. I tend to consider the general use of IP as probably one of the main signifiers of hacker culture being established, and that was far from common in the 75-85 period (though growing rapidly).

samatman 3y ago
> I don't consider the foundational period to be the same as when "hacker culture was established". This is wrong by definition, is the thing. That's what foundational means: to found something is to establish its foundation. Dennett was simply not a significant part of that. The timeline isn't the reason for that, but it in fact suffices to make the case.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  I don't really agree on this distinction between foundational and established. But we can just agree to disagree on that.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  It wasn't actually my claim that Dennett had much influence on hacker culture. I was originally disputing the idea that Dennett became well known after 1992.