7 ms·

Banks start using purchase history for targeted ads [video]

87 points by walterbell 3y ago

beretguy 3y ago
If you got blocked like I did for some reason here is the working Invidious link https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=VCiXu6S6vEw https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=VCiXu6S6vEw
- aspenmayer 3y ago
  Seems to be buffering more than other videos on same site do on my end on the original link, but it does eventually load.
  - beretguy 3y ago
    Google is trying to block invidious. Try different instances.
    - aspenmayer 3y ago
      So I hear. I was referring to accessing the YouTube url directly. I think that may have been unclear from my phrasing in context.
31337Logic 3y ago
I love this man. Thank you for posting. This is an outright immoral act and should be illegal.
meowster 3y ago
And that's why I use cash everywhere I can, even when it's not as convenient.
- effluvium 3y ago
  Yep. But for me I started using cash when I noticed my local stores were trying to transition away from cash. They would have one aisle that would accept cash. As soon as I noticed the transition away from cash at my daily stores, I started using cash way more often and I was a prick about it. For example at a drag race, I couldn't use a card. I'd select some items I wanted to buy, get into line, then be like oh can I pay in cash? No? And then leave the item that the register. Sure cards are convenient, but this world will become so much more oppressive if we lose the ability to spend with cash. Buy a $1000 tablet, lol here's 50 $20. You'll also notice the clerk's attitude change. The money I'm spending becomes real to them. It's no longer just a number on a screen. They recognize how long it takes to earn that $20.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    There's a store with lots of self-checkout machines and one human cashier, who is trained to ask "Are you paying with cash?" then direct you to machines otherwise. Sometimes they look disappointed when I confirm cash payment. I should ask, "Do you prefer digital payment?" and follow up with, "If everyone pays digitally, what will you do?"
    - PythagoRascal 3y ago
      What does it achieve to be snarky to someone who can do nothing about it?
      - walterbell 3y ago
        That lone human cashier can say, "Are you paying with cash? I'm happy to help you!" Seen at independent shops, sometimes with a discount for cash payment.
        lrvick 3y ago
        Small businesses I regular almost always give me a discount for using cash. Even when I make several hundred dollar purchases they extra appreciate it. They avoid the visa/stripe fees and I avoid my purchasing data being sold to advertisers. Everyone wins.
_8j50 3y ago
Privacy.com lets you beat this.
- DaSHacka 3y ago
  All you're doing is shifting the burden, there's no guarantee they won't (or already are) doing something similar
  - _8j50 3y ago
    Not looking for a guarantee, selling your info will defeat the entire purpose of their business, that's good enough for me. And by law, if they do so, they have to disclose it.
    - lrvick 3y ago
      -They- may not sell the data but the Visa API services they use under the hood sure do, so it is a bit moot.
      - _8j50 3y ago
        It's not moot because they anonymize the merchant and payment information prior to that api (mastercard not visa).
        lrvick 3y ago
        Timing and location data combined with data from various "data enrichment" firms make short work of de-anonymizing this in most cases I am sure.
        _8j50 3y ago
        You can create burner cards that are single use or cards dedicated to a merchant. As far as timing and location data you don' need visa or mastercard for that, but any information visa or master card can share with third parties would be specific to a merchant.
blackeyeblitzar 3y ago
This is unbelievably unethical and should be made illegal, with retroactive fines. I’ll be writing my city and state attorneys and legislators about this tonight. I’ll ask that all banks with this practice have their physical locations closed.
- sandspar 3y ago
  Good for you, honestly. As a side note, computer science forums are one of the few places where you get posts like this. I like hanging out on HackerNews because I can talk to people like you.
stuaxo 3y ago
Pretty sure this can't fly under UK data protection law - you can't just take data that you have for our purpose and use it for something else.
- Nextgrid 3y ago
  If we’re talking about UK data protection law then Facebook can’t fly either and yet it’s still around? UK is a corporatocracy and is even less interested in enforcing data protection regulations than the EU (which is itself terrible at it).
usr1106 3y ago
Ironically the video is hosted by the worst targeted advertising company. So I did not watch it, try to avoid them as much as I can.
- lrvick 3y ago
  Use ad-free tracking-free mirrors like https://yewtu.be https://yewtu.be
noja 3y ago
We've had this before: a very long time ago the banks tried to do the same thing, and there was uproar and legislation. If I can find out the name for it I will post here.
- lrvick 3y ago
  Visa, Mastercard, etc power the debit card APIs every bank uses. They and every internet enabled cash register and middle-man like Square and Stripe sell all that data already. The banks were just feeling left out. If you think privacy is a human right, then help preserve it by using cash everywhere possible.
  - reaperman 3y ago
    Getting harder to use cash. Fewer places accept it at all since COVID, and even some consumer purchases trigger SAR review when I withdraw the cash. (e.g. buying a whole rig's worth of expensive computer parts from Microcenter, a car, or even some TV's can all approach that $8,000 limit where banks consider it close enough to the $10,000 rule)
    - lrvick 3y ago
      For the few places that do not accept cash, I purchase prepaid debit cards with cash. Still deprives vendors and my bank of my identity-linked buying behavior.
    - southernplaces7 3y ago
      >and even some consumer purchases trigger SAR review when I withdraw the cash If what you're doing is legal, so what? If anything, a sort of social protest in favor of cash and against pervasive, parasitic transaction monitoring should arise to saturate such systems with bullshit SAR reviews. In effect, people should decide to deliberately go cash-heavy for transactions that arbitrarily trigger these idiocies. The bean-counter bureaucrats want to watch how we spend every penny of paper and coin? Make them suffer the burden of it.
flappyeagle 3y ago
Caveat, you are being paid for this. The points you get back on you card come from somewhere You can use privacy dot com or something if this matters to you but it doesn’t matter to most people

87 points by walterbell 3y ago

If you got blocked like I did for some reason here is the working Invidious link https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=VCiXu6S6vEw https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=VCiXu6S6vEw

aspenmayer 3y ago
Seems to be buffering more than other videos on same site do on my end on the original link, but it does eventually load.
- beretguy 3y ago
  Google is trying to block invidious. Try different instances.
  - aspenmayer 3y ago
    So I hear. I was referring to accessing the YouTube url directly. I think that may have been unclear from my phrasing in context.

31337Logic 3y ago

I love this man. Thank you for posting. This is an outright immoral act and should be illegal.

meowster 3y ago

And that's why I use cash everywhere I can, even when it's not as convenient.

effluvium 3y ago
Yep. But for me I started using cash when I noticed my local stores were trying to transition away from cash. They would have one aisle that would accept cash. As soon as I noticed the transition away from cash at my daily stores, I started using cash way more often and I was a prick about it. For example at a drag race, I couldn't use a card. I'd select some items I wanted to buy, get into line, then be like oh can I pay in cash? No? And then leave the item that the register. Sure cards are convenient, but this world will become so much more oppressive if we lose the ability to spend with cash. Buy a $1000 tablet, lol here's 50 $20. You'll also notice the clerk's attitude change. The money I'm spending becomes real to them. It's no longer just a number on a screen. They recognize how long it takes to earn that $20.
- walterbell 3y ago
  There's a store with lots of self-checkout machines and one human cashier, who is trained to ask "Are you paying with cash?" then direct you to machines otherwise. Sometimes they look disappointed when I confirm cash payment. I should ask, "Do you prefer digital payment?" and follow up with, "If everyone pays digitally, what will you do?"
  - PythagoRascal 3y ago
    What does it achieve to be snarky to someone who can do nothing about it?
    - walterbell 3y ago
      That lone human cashier can say, "Are you paying with cash? I'm happy to help you!" Seen at independent shops, sometimes with a discount for cash payment.
      - lrvick 3y ago
        Small businesses I regular almost always give me a discount for using cash. Even when I make several hundred dollar purchases they extra appreciate it. They avoid the visa/stripe fees and I avoid my purchasing data being sold to advertisers. Everyone wins.

_8j50 3y ago

Privacy.com lets you beat this.

DaSHacka 3y ago
All you're doing is shifting the burden, there's no guarantee they won't (or already are) doing something similar
- _8j50 3y ago
  Not looking for a guarantee, selling your info will defeat the entire purpose of their business, that's good enough for me. And by law, if they do so, they have to disclose it.
  - lrvick 3y ago
    -They- may not sell the data but the Visa API services they use under the hood sure do, so it is a bit moot.
    - _8j50 3y ago
      It's not moot because they anonymize the merchant and payment information prior to that api (mastercard not visa).
      - lrvick 3y ago
        Timing and location data combined with data from various "data enrichment" firms make short work of de-anonymizing this in most cases I am sure.
        _8j50 3y ago
        You can create burner cards that are single use or cards dedicated to a merchant. As far as timing and location data you don' need visa or mastercard for that, but any information visa or master card can share with third parties would be specific to a merchant.

blackeyeblitzar 3y ago

This is unbelievably unethical and should be made illegal, with retroactive fines. I’ll be writing my city and state attorneys and legislators about this tonight. I’ll ask that all banks with this practice have their physical locations closed.

sandspar 3y ago
Good for you, honestly. As a side note, computer science forums are one of the few places where you get posts like this. I like hanging out on HackerNews because I can talk to people like you.

stuaxo 3y ago

Pretty sure this can't fly under UK data protection law - you can't just take data that you have for our purpose and use it for something else.

Nextgrid 3y ago
If we’re talking about UK data protection law then Facebook can’t fly either and yet it’s still around? UK is a corporatocracy and is even less interested in enforcing data protection regulations than the EU (which is itself terrible at it).

usr1106 3y ago

Ironically the video is hosted by the worst targeted advertising company. So I did not watch it, try to avoid them as much as I can.

lrvick 3y ago
Use ad-free tracking-free mirrors like https://yewtu.be https://yewtu.be

noja 3y ago

We've had this before: a very long time ago the banks tried to do the same thing, and there was uproar and legislation. If I can find out the name for it I will post here.

lrvick 3y ago
Visa, Mastercard, etc power the debit card APIs every bank uses. They and every internet enabled cash register and middle-man like Square and Stripe sell all that data already. The banks were just feeling left out. If you think privacy is a human right, then help preserve it by using cash everywhere possible.
- reaperman 3y ago
  Getting harder to use cash. Fewer places accept it at all since COVID, and even some consumer purchases trigger SAR review when I withdraw the cash. (e.g. buying a whole rig's worth of expensive computer parts from Microcenter, a car, or even some TV's can all approach that $8,000 limit where banks consider it close enough to the $10,000 rule)
  - lrvick 3y ago
    For the few places that do not accept cash, I purchase prepaid debit cards with cash. Still deprives vendors and my bank of my identity-linked buying behavior.
  - southernplaces7 3y ago
    >and even some consumer purchases trigger SAR review when I withdraw the cash If what you're doing is legal, so what? If anything, a sort of social protest in favor of cash and against pervasive, parasitic transaction monitoring should arise to saturate such systems with bullshit SAR reviews. In effect, people should decide to deliberately go cash-heavy for transactions that arbitrarily trigger these idiocies. The bean-counter bureaucrats want to watch how we spend every penny of paper and coin? Make them suffer the burden of it.

flappyeagle 3y ago

Caveat, you are being paid for this. The points you get back on you card come from somewhere You can use privacy dot com or something if this matters to you but it doesn’t matter to most people