3 ms·

I don't know why, but this is a topic about which people often hold very strong views. I agree with the author, but I feel like this viewpoint is discouraged,

I don't know why, but this is a topic about which people often hold very strong views. I agree with the author, but I feel like this viewpoint is discouraged, at least in the US; tipping is mandatory, and it is considered rude not to tip. But, if tipping is mandatory, why not just advertise the real price? Take a cabe ride for example: I pay the driver to take me from point A to B. He (or she) completes this task, and I pay them. Very rarely do I feel like I have received exceptional service, and often the drivers are rude and impatient. But I have to tip at least 10-15% or I'm an asshole. Maybe we'd all receive better service if we stopped compulsory tipping, and instead only tipped when we receive good customer service.

stefanobernardi 14y ago
I'm all hears for a solution to this problem. I've been thinking about it and failing at it. The system is really ubiquitous at the moment.
- glhaynes 14y ago
  Many regions of the world work just fine without tipping, so the difficulty would be in the transition. Have any cultures successfully made the transition from tipping to not-tipping? Seems like the only start toward doing so would be to force minimum wage standards to be applied to all workers. This would benefit some but cause significant hardships to some others, so it seems to me unlikely to be achievable.
  - kyt 14y ago
    What does 'just fine' mean? There is a large restaurant service disparity between the US and Europe.
  - twoodfin 14y ago
    Many regions of the world may "work just fine", but I'll put the service you'll get at an average priced sit down restaurant in an averaged sized city of the U.S. against a comparable establishment anywhere else on Earth. That's not to say there aren't friendly, competent staff everywhere, but at least my anecdotal experience has been that the U.S. and its tipping culture excels at providing good to excellent service on average. The chief advantage of tipping is that it encourages people who are skilled at providing customer service to stay in the industry and those who are not to leave. Other feedback mechanisms might be possible, but they'd be much more complex.
- loumf 14y ago
  How much of a problem is this? You said that it wasn't money -- that it was just not knowing the cost. If that's true, I don't understand at all -- the cost is 20% more than the listed price. If you see a burger at $10, that's really $12 -- it's the same problem as dining in a foreign currency -- the exchange rate for $ to R$ (restaurant dollars) is 1.200.
  - ufo 14y ago
    For the longest time I was wondering why you were saying that the exchange rate from US dollars to Brazilian Reais is 1.2 when its actually closer to 2.0 ...
tptacek 14y ago
It's not "considered" rude not to tip in the US. It is rude not to tip. It may not make sense to you that restaurants underpay waitstaff in anticipation of tips, but they do. If you want to protest the practice, don't patronize businesses that encourage tipping. For whatever it's worth to you, tipping isn't just an incentive scheme to get waitstaff to do their jobs well; it's also a commission and recruiting/retention practice. I have no strong opinions about tipping cabs. I tip them, but the economics behind cab tips are not the same as for service staff. Cab drivers in Chicago are usually sole proprietors of their own businesses and can select their routes to maximize returns; about the most you could say is that they also have to deal with fixed fare rates, which themselves might be set in anticipation of tipping. But refusing to tip restaurant servers is from what I can tell morally equivalent to taking money out of their pockets.
- joejohnson 14y ago
  From the post, Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington require minimum wage for waitstaff. Do you think tipping should be mandatory in these states? How about all of the other service professionals which are paid a decent wage regardless of tips?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Even in the minority of states that require minimum wage for waitstaff, waitstaff wages are adjusted in anticipation of tips. Service staff at good restaurants do not, as a rule, make minimum wage. Other service professionals are paid a market wage. The bus driver, to continue with the particularly inept example used by this blog post, has in many localities also been compensated with a pension.
    - aidenn0 14y ago
      And for non-public transit bus drivers (e.g charter buses) tipping is more common.
    - masklinn 14y ago
      > Other service professionals are paid a market wage. The bus driver, to continue with the particularly inept example used by this blog post, has in many localities also been compensated with a pension. Which is the whole point, if pretty much every other service professional is paid a market wage, how are waiters different?

stefanobernardi 14y ago

I'm all hears for a solution to this problem. I've been thinking about it and failing at it. The system is really ubiquitous at the moment.

glhaynes 14y ago
Many regions of the world work just fine without tipping, so the difficulty would be in the transition. Have any cultures successfully made the transition from tipping to not-tipping? Seems like the only start toward doing so would be to force minimum wage standards to be applied to all workers. This would benefit some but cause significant hardships to some others, so it seems to me unlikely to be achievable.
- kyt 14y ago
  What does 'just fine' mean? There is a large restaurant service disparity between the US and Europe.
- twoodfin 14y ago
  Many regions of the world may "work just fine", but I'll put the service you'll get at an average priced sit down restaurant in an averaged sized city of the U.S. against a comparable establishment anywhere else on Earth. That's not to say there aren't friendly, competent staff everywhere, but at least my anecdotal experience has been that the U.S. and its tipping culture excels at providing good to excellent service on average. The chief advantage of tipping is that it encourages people who are skilled at providing customer service to stay in the industry and those who are not to leave. Other feedback mechanisms might be possible, but they'd be much more complex.
loumf 14y ago
How much of a problem is this? You said that it wasn't money -- that it was just not knowing the cost. If that's true, I don't understand at all -- the cost is 20% more than the listed price. If you see a burger at $10, that's really $12 -- it's the same problem as dining in a foreign currency -- the exchange rate for $ to R$ (restaurant dollars) is 1.200.
- ufo 14y ago
  For the longest time I was wondering why you were saying that the exchange rate from US dollars to Brazilian Reais is 1.2 when its actually closer to 2.0 ...

tptacek 14y ago

It's not "considered" rude not to tip in the US. It is rude not to tip. It may not make sense to you that restaurants underpay waitstaff in anticipation of tips, but they do. If you want to protest the practice, don't patronize businesses that encourage tipping. For whatever it's worth to you, tipping isn't just an incentive scheme to get waitstaff to do their jobs well; it's also a commission and recruiting/retention practice. I have no strong opinions about tipping cabs. I tip them, but the economics behind cab tips are not the same as for service staff. Cab drivers in Chicago are usually sole proprietors of their own businesses and can select their routes to maximize returns; about the most you could say is that they also have to deal with fixed fare rates, which themselves might be set in anticipation of tipping. But refusing to tip restaurant servers is from what I can tell morally equivalent to taking money out of their pockets.

joejohnson 14y ago
From the post, Alaska, California, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington require minimum wage for waitstaff. Do you think tipping should be mandatory in these states? How about all of the other service professionals which are paid a decent wage regardless of tips?
- tptacek 14y ago
  Even in the minority of states that require minimum wage for waitstaff, waitstaff wages are adjusted in anticipation of tips. Service staff at good restaurants do not, as a rule, make minimum wage. Other service professionals are paid a market wage. The bus driver, to continue with the particularly inept example used by this blog post, has in many localities also been compensated with a pension.
  - aidenn0 14y ago
    And for non-public transit bus drivers (e.g charter buses) tipping is more common.
  - masklinn 14y ago
    > Other service professionals are paid a market wage. The bus driver, to continue with the particularly inept example used by this blog post, has in many localities also been compensated with a pension. Which is the whole point, if pretty much every other service professional is paid a market wage, how are waiters different?