3 ms·

I know this topic resurfaced due to the Googler protest scandal but nothing really changed under the surface since then. A lot of western corporations are still

I know this topic resurfaced due to the Googler protest scandal but nothing really changed under the surface since then. A lot of western corporations are still active in Russia today after the invasion. Corporations don't heave a soul or moral compass, they don't care who they hurt or kill, they just follow the money. French concrete corporation Lafarge was caught funding terorism by paying ISIS to leave their concrete trucks lone in Syria and all they got was a fine from the US government. Nestle is responsible for a shit tonne of infant mortality in impoverished nations and IKEA for major deforestation and nothing really happened to them despite preaching how much they care about people and the environemnt. I still maintain my PoV that if the execs were to face jailtime or a trail at The Hague instead of petty corporate fines that become part of the cost of doing business, companies would be a lot more mindful on how humane they earn their money. Bring the downvotes, I made peace with it.

stuff4ben 3y ago
Actually things have changed for IBM. Speaking as an IBM employee, but not on behalf of IBM, my team (and I suspect all others) had to identify any work done by Russian IBM employees and then subsequently divested ourselves of those employees and offices during the start of the invasion of Ukraine.
- throwarussian 3y ago
  Throwaway for obvious reasons. Do you mean that you've "divested" yourselves from the employees of Russian IBM branch or from anyone who's a Russian national? The company I work for is in the process of being acquired by IBM. Even though I'm located in Europe, I have Russian citizenship. Does it mean that I'm also going to be "divested from" after the acquisition is complete?
  - dralley 3y ago
    Not OP, but I believe for most companies including IBM the policy was "anyone residing within Russia who did not wish to or could not relocate outside of Russia" would be terminated. If you did relocate (and I believe some assistance was provided) then you were fine. I work for an IBM subsidary, and to the best of my knowledge this is how it worked. One of my coworkers is a Russian expat (and I believe still citizen) living in Europe and they were unaffected.
keybored 3y ago
I’m feeling that this submission might be more apropos of Gaza than the Russian invasion.
- pphysch 3y ago
  Yeah, the sanctions against Russia were among the most severe in history, and widely observed by Western corporations. That they failed is a different discussion. Meanwhile, BDS is a "hate crime".
  - ilikehurdles 3y ago
    BDS is not a hate crime, but the movement is hateful in the methods it employs. It assumes all Jewish entities are guilty by association, unless they make an effort to proclaim their ideological alignment with anti-Israel ideology. Jews are seen by this movement as Zionist-by-default until they declare otherwise, and it takes a very small amount of circumstantial evidence to be targeted for boycott. We don’t treat other ethnic or religious groups this way. We shouldn’t treat anyone this way.
    - pphysch 3y ago
      I think you are making things up; if not, can you give an example of a "Jewish entity" with no significant links to Israel that was explicitly targeted by BDS? I can give many examples of non-Jewish businesses with links to Israel that have been targeted by BDS.
      - ilikehurdles 3y ago
        https://www.adl.org/boston-mapping-project https://www.adl.org/boston-mapping-project Also I never questioned that some targets are non-Jewish. There being some non-Jewish targets who support the self-determination of the people of Israel doesn’t invalidate targets that are placed on synagogues, day cares, schools, community centers, bagel shops, etc on specious grounds.
spxneo 3y ago
and Ukraine is still on track to lose the war even after all that sanction Western companies exiting Russia created several Russian billionaires overnight Resulting in more tax revenues and money staying within that country I'm sorry but Western virtue signaling impact is routinely over-exaggerated and actually achieves the complete opposite of what it set out to do
- dralley 3y ago
  Sanctions do work, but anyone claiming that they would single handedly crush the Russian economy in a matter of months were delusional, especially due to all of the avoidance going on through Turkey and Kazakhstan. Nonetheless, it does add a lot of friction that slowly grinds away at the economy. For example: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russias-arctic-lng-2-suspends-gas-liquefaction-amid-sanctions-lack-tankers-2024-04-02/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russias-arctic-l... https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-splashes-12-bln-keep-aviation-sector-air-2023-12-21/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-sp... Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics, manpower shortages due to the war, wartime spending, and corruption. Right now they're coasting on what's left of their reserves, but those are finite. Their economy won't outright collapse but it will get more and more inefficient and fragile.
  - spxneo 3y ago
    yet the sanctions are doing little to change the outcome in the battlefield Russia is clearing pulling out ahead and its delusional to think that Ukraine even had a chance to begin with Quantity always wins over quality.
  - Rinzler89 3y ago
    >Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics Do you think Ukraine's demographics are doing any better? I live in western Europe and every day I hear Ukrainian on the streets . Wherever you go in Europe, Germany, Luxembourg, Ireland, etc. it's full of Ukrainians (mostly women and youngsters). How do you think Ukraine's chances of success look like when all their women and youngsters are living abroad? Those are you future and they're not where they're needed most but building up other countries future and economies. Ukraine is dying the slow death. If Russia doesn't do it, their demographics will. Even if they "win", the victory gained will be bombed out land hosting mostly scarred men and elderly pensioners. How is that a victory?
krapp 3y ago
> Corporations don't heave a soul or moral compass, they just follow the money. It's less true that corporations don't have a soul or moral compass and more so that they reflect the soul and moral compass of their owners. Anti-semitism was common amongst the US business and intellectual classes, and many companies - IBM included - were run by people who sympathized with Hitler's ideals. The uncomfortable truth is that the US and Nazi Germany were a lot more similar in terms of their ideology than the propaganda leads people to believe. Hitler even credited the US' policies of genocide against native Americans, eugenics and racial discrimination as inspiration.
- timschmidt 3y ago
  See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin for an example of US ideology aligned with Hitler's.
  - tacocataco 3y ago
    The business plot [1] was the potential inflection point in the USA where fascism could have enveloped the nation. (IMO). We got lucky. We STILL are getting lucky. This stuff is why businesses need to be equally owned by the workers that do all the work. That power and wealth is diffused throughout the population, not concentraighted in the hands of a few men with fewer morals. The inequity of our way of life is a existential threat. [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
    - timschmidt 3y ago
      It seems entirely possible that the business plot succeeded, just with someone other than Smedley Butler as the figurehead. Despite Smedley informing congress of the plot, it seems no disciplinary action was taken against the conspirators.

stuff4ben 3y ago

Actually things have changed for IBM. Speaking as an IBM employee, but not on behalf of IBM, my team (and I suspect all others) had to identify any work done by Russian IBM employees and then subsequently divested ourselves of those employees and offices during the start of the invasion of Ukraine.

throwarussian 3y ago
Throwaway for obvious reasons. Do you mean that you've "divested" yourselves from the employees of Russian IBM branch or from anyone who's a Russian national? The company I work for is in the process of being acquired by IBM. Even though I'm located in Europe, I have Russian citizenship. Does it mean that I'm also going to be "divested from" after the acquisition is complete?
- dralley 3y ago
  Not OP, but I believe for most companies including IBM the policy was "anyone residing within Russia who did not wish to or could not relocate outside of Russia" would be terminated. If you did relocate (and I believe some assistance was provided) then you were fine. I work for an IBM subsidary, and to the best of my knowledge this is how it worked. One of my coworkers is a Russian expat (and I believe still citizen) living in Europe and they were unaffected.

keybored 3y ago

I’m feeling that this submission might be more apropos of Gaza than the Russian invasion.

pphysch 3y ago
Yeah, the sanctions against Russia were among the most severe in history, and widely observed by Western corporations. That they failed is a different discussion. Meanwhile, BDS is a "hate crime".
- ilikehurdles 3y ago
  BDS is not a hate crime, but the movement is hateful in the methods it employs. It assumes all Jewish entities are guilty by association, unless they make an effort to proclaim their ideological alignment with anti-Israel ideology. Jews are seen by this movement as Zionist-by-default until they declare otherwise, and it takes a very small amount of circumstantial evidence to be targeted for boycott. We don’t treat other ethnic or religious groups this way. We shouldn’t treat anyone this way.
  - pphysch 3y ago
    I think you are making things up; if not, can you give an example of a "Jewish entity" with no significant links to Israel that was explicitly targeted by BDS? I can give many examples of non-Jewish businesses with links to Israel that have been targeted by BDS.
    - ilikehurdles 3y ago
      https://www.adl.org/boston-mapping-project https://www.adl.org/boston-mapping-project Also I never questioned that some targets are non-Jewish. There being some non-Jewish targets who support the self-determination of the people of Israel doesn’t invalidate targets that are placed on synagogues, day cares, schools, community centers, bagel shops, etc on specious grounds.

spxneo 3y ago

and Ukraine is still on track to lose the war even after all that sanction Western companies exiting Russia created several Russian billionaires overnight Resulting in more tax revenues and money staying within that country I'm sorry but Western virtue signaling impact is routinely over-exaggerated and actually achieves the complete opposite of what it set out to do

dralley 3y ago
Sanctions do work, but anyone claiming that they would single handedly crush the Russian economy in a matter of months were delusional, especially due to all of the avoidance going on through Turkey and Kazakhstan. Nonetheless, it does add a lot of friction that slowly grinds away at the economy. For example: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russias-arctic-lng-2-suspends-gas-liquefaction-amid-sanctions-lack-tankers-2024-04-02/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russias-arctic-l... https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-splashes-12-bln-keep-aviation-sector-air-2023-12-21/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/russia-sp... Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics, manpower shortages due to the war, wartime spending, and corruption. Right now they're coasting on what's left of their reserves, but those are finite. Their economy won't outright collapse but it will get more and more inefficient and fragile.
- spxneo 3y ago
  yet the sanctions are doing little to change the outcome in the battlefield Russia is clearing pulling out ahead and its delusional to think that Ukraine even had a chance to begin with Quantity always wins over quality.
- Rinzler89 3y ago
  >Russia can't sustain autarky on their own, and especially not with their demographics Do you think Ukraine's demographics are doing any better? I live in western Europe and every day I hear Ukrainian on the streets . Wherever you go in Europe, Germany, Luxembourg, Ireland, etc. it's full of Ukrainians (mostly women and youngsters). How do you think Ukraine's chances of success look like when all their women and youngsters are living abroad? Those are you future and they're not where they're needed most but building up other countries future and economies. Ukraine is dying the slow death. If Russia doesn't do it, their demographics will. Even if they "win", the victory gained will be bombed out land hosting mostly scarred men and elderly pensioners. How is that a victory?

krapp 3y ago

> Corporations don't heave a soul or moral compass, they just follow the money. It's less true that corporations don't have a soul or moral compass and more so that they reflect the soul and moral compass of their owners. Anti-semitism was common amongst the US business and intellectual classes, and many companies - IBM included - were run by people who sympathized with Hitler's ideals. The uncomfortable truth is that the US and Nazi Germany were a lot more similar in terms of their ideology than the propaganda leads people to believe. Hitler even credited the US' policies of genocide against native Americans, eugenics and racial discrimination as inspiration.

timschmidt 3y ago
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Coughlin for an example of US ideology aligned with Hitler's.
- tacocataco 3y ago
  The business plot [1] was the potential inflection point in the USA where fascism could have enveloped the nation. (IMO). We got lucky. We STILL are getting lucky. This stuff is why businesses need to be equally owned by the workers that do all the work. That power and wealth is diffused throughout the population, not concentraighted in the hands of a few men with fewer morals. The inequity of our way of life is a existential threat. [1]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
  - timschmidt 3y ago
    It seems entirely possible that the business plot succeeded, just with someone other than Smedley Butler as the figurehead. Despite Smedley informing congress of the plot, it seems no disciplinary action was taken against the conspirators.