> Expressive lies in the language not in the framework, For me, expressiveness is the sum of language expressiveness, framework, culture and api design. For e

> Expressive lies in the language not in the framework, For me, expressiveness is the sum of language expressiveness, framework, culture and api design. For example, see this crime against humanity <%@ taglib uri="http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/core" prefix="c" %> <%@ taglib uri="http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/functions" prefix="fn" %> <c:choose> <c:when test="${emails.unread != null && fn:size(emails.unread)}"> You have ${fn:size(emails.unread)} unread email(s)! </c:when> <c:otherwise> You have no unread emails! </c:otherwise> </c:choose> Now, the designers could have very well implemented: You have ${emails.unread ?: 'no'} ${emails.unread?.pluralize('email')} ! > I think you have a different mindset on that one but I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve. I am not trying to achieve anything, and it's not just a matter of mindset. See my example above. Expressiveness isn't just something which is confined to the language. Horrendous apis and frameworks are a bane for any language. > Migration? Flyway works nicely and I don't have to spend days to set it up, just less than an hour for multi-year project. I don't follow your remark that you don't have to spend days to set it up. Which migration lib takes days to set up? I am not contesting there isn't something bad out there(see my JSP example above), but since we are talking Rails/Django, I don't see how it is relevant here. > JAX-RS can spits both XML and JSON easily with no code changes. I don't have to use Sinatra (or node.js) for web-api and deploy it separately from Rails: Umm what? Rails needs Sinatra to produce JSON? def foo respond_to do |format| format.html { } format.json { } format.xml { } end end > Wait, what am I doing trolling like redditors or slashdotters over mindless debate. > sigh technology has never been the problem, the people are sigh always holds true. I won't bother responding to this.