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This moral absolutism is superficially appealing, but can you think of any examples* from history where it brings positive results for the majority of parties i

This moral absolutism is superficially appealing, but can you think of any examples* from history where it brings positive results for the majority of parties involved? Parties, in order of importance: citizens, vendor, dictatorship. [*] Examples should not include any that devolve into military conflict.

testrun 3y ago
South Africa
- quesera 3y ago
  Great example. But it did require a very broad near-global economic embargo/war, which is only practical against smaller countries. And ZA was not a dictatorship, so it did have the mechanism for change from within.
  - boxed 3y ago
    Well.. it was partly a dictatorship at the very least. Even whites were afraid to speak openly and even to listen to whatever music they wanted.
    - quesera 3y ago
      Repression of civil liberties is a common trait of dictatorships, but it does not define one. Dictatorships require dictators. PW Botha was a lot of bad things, but he was not a dictator. China is considered a dictatorship because Xi has dictatorial powers. Anyway this is all just semantics. The more important point is probably that it corrupts corporations to do business in countries with repressive governments, and to follow their repressive laws. China is further along the repressive-government scale than many of us would like. I believe that Apple management are among the truly bothered, but moral complications abound, and ultimately their fiduciary-duty options are limited.
  - miramba 3y ago
    It was a dictatorship of a minority with a right to elect their leader over a large majority without that right.
    - quesera 3y ago
      That's not a dictatorship. And FWIW, only a minority of adult citizens could vote in the US until 1920. That was bad but it was not a dictatorship.
RandomLensman 3y ago
Exports to the USSR and the Eastern Bloc were pretty tightly controlled.
- quesera 3y ago
  Export restrictions are not what broke the Soviet Union though. And the jury is still out on net "positive results", although there are a few clear successes!
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    They certainly had an impact. I'd say net positive looking at the whole of the Eastern bloc.

testrun 3y ago

South Africa

quesera 3y ago
Great example. But it did require a very broad near-global economic embargo/war, which is only practical against smaller countries. And ZA was not a dictatorship, so it did have the mechanism for change from within.
- boxed 3y ago
  Well.. it was partly a dictatorship at the very least. Even whites were afraid to speak openly and even to listen to whatever music they wanted.
  - quesera 3y ago
    Repression of civil liberties is a common trait of dictatorships, but it does not define one. Dictatorships require dictators. PW Botha was a lot of bad things, but he was not a dictator. China is considered a dictatorship because Xi has dictatorial powers. Anyway this is all just semantics. The more important point is probably that it corrupts corporations to do business in countries with repressive governments, and to follow their repressive laws. China is further along the repressive-government scale than many of us would like. I believe that Apple management are among the truly bothered, but moral complications abound, and ultimately their fiduciary-duty options are limited.
- miramba 3y ago
  It was a dictatorship of a minority with a right to elect their leader over a large majority without that right.
  - quesera 3y ago
    That's not a dictatorship. And FWIW, only a minority of adult citizens could vote in the US until 1920. That was bad but it was not a dictatorship.

RandomLensman 3y ago

Exports to the USSR and the Eastern Bloc were pretty tightly controlled.

quesera 3y ago
Export restrictions are not what broke the Soviet Union though. And the jury is still out on net "positive results", although there are a few clear successes!
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  They certainly had an impact. I'd say net positive looking at the whole of the Eastern bloc.