5 ms·

Huawei's latest flagship smartphone contains no world-shaking silicon surprises

26 points by LorenDB 3y ago

noworld 3y ago
does it contain CCP software surprises?
- andrewpolidori 3y ago
  also no, lol
  - jsyang00 3y ago
    definitely yes, lol
    - readyplayernull 3y ago
      All those lulz got me thinking what if the Havana syndrome generator can be miniaturized and integrated into smartphones, and activated by an ubiquitous process like overloading the energy consumption of the chip with an apparent system bug. They would have created a brain frying grenade taken straight from some GI Joe sunday cartoon.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        Multiple sci-fi plots are that very premise. Just like this chip, no ground braking idea in this thread either
      - narag 3y ago
        You're going to like this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802144/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802144/
  - NotYourLawyer 3y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtL6kbYiP-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtL6kbYiP-w
pquki4 3y ago
> Importantly, all models of the Pura 70 run HarmonyOS 4.2 – Huawei's not-Android operating system. This needs a lot more context. My understanding is that at this time HarmonyOS is still fully compatible with Android and you can just install apk files like you would do on any other Android device. They are doing their own stuff at low level, and it is reported that "HarmonyOS Next" will be incompatible with Android (no idea what that will look like), but to say HarmonyOS 4.2 is "not-Android" means as much as saying Amazon's Fire tablets are not using Android. And I am skeptical about the HarmonyOS Next thing and can't see how its fate could be different from Windows Phone if Android apps are out of the question. While it is true that China itself is a huge market, and there are enough users and developers to demand an "in-house" OS, there are a few obvious, big hurdles -- app ecosystem, browser etc. Of course Huawei can throw money at the problem and get developers on board, but one needs to be aware that (1) there are only about 3 big browser vendors in the world, and even Firefox and Safari are lagging in features and bug fixes (2) even in China Huawei needs to compete with other phone makers who are using Android, and developers need to support Android, iOS and Harmony OS. I am not optimistic about this.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  > This needs a lot more context. My understanding is that at this time HarmonyOS is still fully compatible with Android and you can just install apk files like you would do on any other Android device. They are doing their own stuff at low level, and it is reported that "HarmonyOS Next" will be incompatible with Android (no idea what that will look like), but to say HarmonyOS 4.2 is "not-Android" means as much as saying Amazon's Fire tablets are not using Android. This largely matches my understanding. NEXT is supposed to be 5.x, until then it still has APK compatibility and AOSP compatibility (no Play services of course). > And I am skeptical about the HarmonyOS Next thing and can't see how its fate could be different from Windows Phone if Android apps are out of the question... Their approach is a little different than throwing something new at the wall and hoping it sticks and I actually see it working. E.g. HarmonyOS 4.x can and does already run non-APK Harmony apps, it just also runs APKs. This is why the article notes the growth of native Harmony apps prior to Harmony NEXT even launching - the transition already started. This also means Huawei has had time to do things like have the existing nweb (Chromium based browser) port while working on ArkWeb (in house browser) to replace the outside dependency wholesale. The browsers are great examples of the progressive strategy - slowly build more independent options over the years at the same time you slowly replace the backend OS over years and now you've done all of these "impossible" things without ever having the "big moment" replacement people can easily reject.
ugjka 3y ago
Why would anyone outside china buy this phone?
- leonth 3y ago
  Because it may be cheap, available, and gasp aligning with China might not be so bad overall compared to alternatives.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    Yup. Go to Japan and there are entire sections of electronics stores dedicated to Huawei phones. What about the Japanese manufacturers, you might ask? Well apparently there's so much Sony Xperia smartphone stock that NTT DOCOMO is selling them for just 10 yen each with the purchase of a new contract. I'd say the only reason we don't see Huawei in English-West is because we were more preemptive in kicking them out of our markets.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      I've liked Xperia and wanted to buy them in the US for years. My last Android phone was an Xperia ion. The lack of software and carrier support and the fact that they have you send stuff to the same S Texas based service center that does Playstations doesn't bode well.
- 1over137 3y ago
  For the same reasons anyone buys anything: it does what they need/want for cheap enough and good enough.
  - milankragujevic 3y ago
    The phone is quite expensive actually.
    - 1over137 3y ago
      Yes, about 1050 €, but I said 'cheap enough' not 'cheap'. iPhone 15 Pro is about 1229 €. People buy those too.
joecool1029 3y ago
Context: Article pointing out the new chip is still on SMIC 7nm. It's still technically impressive SMIC was able to produce 7nm under sanctions conditions and was able to hit this process node within a year or so of Intel 7. The 'world-shaking silicon surprises' would be if SMIC can hit 5nm at some point with or without EUV (since they are not able to buy ASML's machines).
- wmf 3y ago
  You mean it's technically impressive that SMIC was able to produce 7nm within six years of TSMC? Intel has been quite far behind.
  - John23832 3y ago
    Intel is bound by western intellectual property laws. SMIC can parallel construct a story to discover their stolen tech process.
    - kshfksm 3y ago
      It’s worth considering that the presumption of intellectual superiority is what led the west to this point
      - John23832 3y ago
        I do not look down upon Chinese society, or their technological achievements. Even making a derivative chip is a achievement in itself. However by all analysis, the chip is a derivative of TSMC technology. If TSMC and SMIC are not collaborating, then Occam's Razor leads us to the tech/process being stolen.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        Bluntly frankly, it really doesn't matter how or why China has 7nm process nodes. What matters is they do, and that arguably makes them superior to Intel and thusly the USA; remember that Intel 7 is 10nm, for whatever value "nm" still holds. This fact should fucking terrify all Americans, and indeed the west at large.
snvzz 3y ago
Solid is good.
luxuryballs 3y ago
maybe I’m getting old but I still have yet to desire anything more than this iPhone 13 mini I picked up when the 14 came out without a mini, still waiting to drop it or find something worth upgrading to… heck if the next big feature for iPhone is AI I may even say nah I’m good, tech feels like a weird plateau right now, or I’m just getting old
luyu_wu 3y ago
For reference the chip comes half-a-year after the original (9000). It's far more of a refresh than anything (as the name 9010 implies). Still seriously behind Qualcomm and the likes, roughly the level of an 888. Interestingly 9010's IPC (~25% gen-on-gen) is roughly SNPD 2 (last years QC flagship) but it clocks to a max of 2.3 GHz. Curious what the performance would've been had Huawei still been allowed on TSMC nodes.

26 points by LorenDB 3y ago

noworld 3y ago

does it contain CCP software surprises?

andrewpolidori 3y ago
also no, lol
- jsyang00 3y ago
  definitely yes, lol
  - readyplayernull 3y ago
    All those lulz got me thinking what if the Havana syndrome generator can be miniaturized and integrated into smartphones, and activated by an ubiquitous process like overloading the energy consumption of the chip with an apparent system bug. They would have created a brain frying grenade taken straight from some GI Joe sunday cartoon.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      Multiple sci-fi plots are that very premise. Just like this chip, no ground braking idea in this thread either
    - narag 3y ago
      You're going to like this: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802144/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2802144/
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtL6kbYiP-w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtL6kbYiP-w

pquki4 3y ago

> Importantly, all models of the Pura 70 run HarmonyOS 4.2 – Huawei's not-Android operating system. This needs a lot more context. My understanding is that at this time HarmonyOS is still fully compatible with Android and you can just install apk files like you would do on any other Android device. They are doing their own stuff at low level, and it is reported that "HarmonyOS Next" will be incompatible with Android (no idea what that will look like), but to say HarmonyOS 4.2 is "not-Android" means as much as saying Amazon's Fire tablets are not using Android. And I am skeptical about the HarmonyOS Next thing and can't see how its fate could be different from Windows Phone if Android apps are out of the question. While it is true that China itself is a huge market, and there are enough users and developers to demand an "in-house" OS, there are a few obvious, big hurdles -- app ecosystem, browser etc. Of course Huawei can throw money at the problem and get developers on board, but one needs to be aware that (1) there are only about 3 big browser vendors in the world, and even Firefox and Safari are lagging in features and bug fixes (2) even in China Huawei needs to compete with other phone makers who are using Android, and developers need to support Android, iOS and Harmony OS. I am not optimistic about this.

zamadatix 3y ago
> This needs a lot more context. My understanding is that at this time HarmonyOS is still fully compatible with Android and you can just install apk files like you would do on any other Android device. They are doing their own stuff at low level, and it is reported that "HarmonyOS Next" will be incompatible with Android (no idea what that will look like), but to say HarmonyOS 4.2 is "not-Android" means as much as saying Amazon's Fire tablets are not using Android. This largely matches my understanding. NEXT is supposed to be 5.x, until then it still has APK compatibility and AOSP compatibility (no Play services of course). > And I am skeptical about the HarmonyOS Next thing and can't see how its fate could be different from Windows Phone if Android apps are out of the question... Their approach is a little different than throwing something new at the wall and hoping it sticks and I actually see it working. E.g. HarmonyOS 4.x can and does already run non-APK Harmony apps, it just also runs APKs. This is why the article notes the growth of native Harmony apps prior to Harmony NEXT even launching - the transition already started. This also means Huawei has had time to do things like have the existing nweb (Chromium based browser) port while working on ArkWeb (in house browser) to replace the outside dependency wholesale. The browsers are great examples of the progressive strategy - slowly build more independent options over the years at the same time you slowly replace the backend OS over years and now you've done all of these "impossible" things without ever having the "big moment" replacement people can easily reject.

ugjka 3y ago

Why would anyone outside china buy this phone?

leonth 3y ago
Because it may be cheap, available, and gasp aligning with China might not be so bad overall compared to alternatives.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Yup. Go to Japan and there are entire sections of electronics stores dedicated to Huawei phones. What about the Japanese manufacturers, you might ask? Well apparently there's so much Sony Xperia smartphone stock that NTT DOCOMO is selling them for just 10 yen each with the purchase of a new contract. I'd say the only reason we don't see Huawei in English-West is because we were more preemptive in kicking them out of our markets.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    I've liked Xperia and wanted to buy them in the US for years. My last Android phone was an Xperia ion. The lack of software and carrier support and the fact that they have you send stuff to the same S Texas based service center that does Playstations doesn't bode well.
1over137 3y ago
For the same reasons anyone buys anything: it does what they need/want for cheap enough and good enough.
- milankragujevic 3y ago
  The phone is quite expensive actually.
  - 1over137 3y ago
    Yes, about 1050 €, but I said 'cheap enough' not 'cheap'. iPhone 15 Pro is about 1229 €. People buy those too.

joecool1029 3y ago

Context: Article pointing out the new chip is still on SMIC 7nm. It's still technically impressive SMIC was able to produce 7nm under sanctions conditions and was able to hit this process node within a year or so of Intel 7. The 'world-shaking silicon surprises' would be if SMIC can hit 5nm at some point with or without EUV (since they are not able to buy ASML's machines).

wmf 3y ago
You mean it's technically impressive that SMIC was able to produce 7nm within six years of TSMC? Intel has been quite far behind.
- John23832 3y ago
  Intel is bound by western intellectual property laws. SMIC can parallel construct a story to discover their stolen tech process.
  - kshfksm 3y ago
    It’s worth considering that the presumption of intellectual superiority is what led the west to this point
    - John23832 3y ago
      I do not look down upon Chinese society, or their technological achievements. Even making a derivative chip is a achievement in itself. However by all analysis, the chip is a derivative of TSMC technology. If TSMC and SMIC are not collaborating, then Occam's Razor leads us to the tech/process being stolen.
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        Bluntly frankly, it really doesn't matter how or why China has 7nm process nodes. What matters is they do, and that arguably makes them superior to Intel and thusly the USA; remember that Intel 7 is 10nm, for whatever value "nm" still holds. This fact should fucking terrify all Americans, and indeed the west at large.

snvzz 3y ago

Solid is good.

luxuryballs 3y ago

maybe I’m getting old but I still have yet to desire anything more than this iPhone 13 mini I picked up when the 14 came out without a mini, still waiting to drop it or find something worth upgrading to… heck if the next big feature for iPhone is AI I may even say nah I’m good, tech feels like a weird plateau right now, or I’m just getting old

luyu_wu 3y ago

For reference the chip comes half-a-year after the original (9000). It's far more of a refresh than anything (as the name 9010 implies). Still seriously behind Qualcomm and the likes, roughly the level of an 888. Interestingly 9010's IPC (~25% gen-on-gen) is roughly SNPD 2 (last years QC flagship) but it clocks to a max of 2.3 GHz. Curious what the performance would've been had Huawei still been allowed on TSMC nodes.